SubQ Increased My Testosterone Levels

[TopGeek]

[MODERATOR SPLIT FROM HERE: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=4766.0.]

This is certainly not my experience. I was injecting 1 ml Sustanon 250 in the quads every 3 weeks and my TT leveled at a little above mid-range. I then switched to 0.15ml subq 3x  p.w. (=1ml every 2 weeks). My TT level rapidly rose above the top of the range and so did my RBC count. Reducing the dose to 0.11ml subq 3x  p.w. (=1ml every 3 weeks) brought the levels back within range.
Despite all this, TRT has not had any effect on my ED.

[PeakT]

So you were doing same dosage, same vial of Sustanon - just more frequently via subQ?

[TopGeek]

So you were doing same dosage, same vial of Sustanon - just more frequently via subQ?

Precisely. Smaller doses over the same period. Total consumption, the same.

[Kierkegaard]

Can you post numbers? This is interesting.

[SteveT]

Hey TopGeek – when you say it brought you levels back into range are you referring to your RBC count?  Also, what days of the week are you injecting to make it work out to three?

[TopGeek]

Hey TopGeek – when you say it brought you levels back into range are you referring to your RBC count?  Also, what days of the week are you injecting to make it work out to three?

It did bring both T levels and RBC levels back into range. T levels are supposed to stabilise more rapidly than RB levels but I waited 3 months before having another blood draw and, by that time, both groups were back in the high normal range. Red blood cells apparently have a life of about 3 months so their decay is quite slow.
For simplicity, I inject on Mon, Wed and Fri so there is a break over the weekend.

[jinNE]

I was hoping that SubQ would cause higher T levels at the same dose but that didn't work out for me. Before SubQ, I was doing 60mg twice a week IM. Back in November on this protocol, my total T was 836 and free T was 201.


I went on SubQ doing 40mg 3x a week for the same total dose. Lab results were total T of 699 and free T of 134. I knew I was low from how I felt but wanted the base labs. After the blood draw on the 22nd of May I immediately bumped to 50mg 3x a week and have been feeling better as of last week. However, back in June of last year I was at 873/277 on a higher dose (200mg a weak) and feeling great. I wanted to see how low I could go and how I would feel and I have a pretty good baseline. As of yesterday, I'm starting a new dose of 50mg 4x a week SubQ (total of 200mg again) and will draw in a month or two and get a number. That should box me in with a high and low that I can use to shift accordingly.


I went off all supplements for over a month before this draw to get a new baseline. VERY happy with the results!


Here are the numbers, based on 40mg 3x week SubQ:


Total T: 699 (want to be over 850+)
Free T: 134 (want to be over 200+)
Fasting Glucose: 91 (a few too many carbs back in my diet)
DHEA-S: 182.2
Estradiol: 41 (was 38 on my last IM dose and 47 on my 200mg/week IM dose)
B12: 843 (high - perhaps my pre-workout was boosting?)
Vitamin D: 41
C-Reactive Protein: 1.0 (was 3.3 last November!)
Total Cholesterol: 161 (was 179 in Nov, 155 in June of last year)
Triglycerides: 154 (was 164 in Nob, 229 in June of last year)
dHDL: 34 (was 33 in Nov, 25 in June of last year)
LDL: 96 (was 113 in Nov, 83 in June of last year)
Hemoglobin: 16.6 (was 16.9 in Nov, 17.9 in June of last year)
Hematocrit: 46.8 (was 49.9 in NOv, 53.2 in June of last year)


As you can see, my lipid panel has had HUGE improvements since last year. I attribute this to the low carb/high fat diet I moved to in September. The only meds I'm on is Testosterone - NO STATINS or anything else.

[PeakT]

I was hoping that SubQ would cause higher T levels at the same dose but that didn't work out for me. Before SubQ, I was doing 60mg twice a week IM. Back in November on this protocol, my total T was 836 and free T was 201.


I went on SubQ doing 40mg 3x a week for the same total dose. Lab results were total T of 699 and free T of 134. I knew I was low from how I felt but wanted the base labs. After the blood draw on the 22nd of May I immediately bumped to 50mg 3x a week and have been feeling better as of last week. However, back in June of last year I was at 873/277 on a higher dose (200mg a weak) and feeling great. I wanted to see how low I could go and how I would feel and I have a pretty good baseline. As of yesterday, I'm starting a new dose of 50mg 4x a week SubQ (total of 200mg again) and will draw in a month or two and get a number. That should box me in with a high and low that I can use to shift accordingly.


I went off all supplements for over a month before this draw to get a new baseline. VERY happy with the results!


Here are the numbers, based on 40mg 3x week SubQ:


Total T: 699 (want to be over 850+)
Free T: 134 (want to be over 200+)
Fasting Glucose: 91 (a few too many carbs back in my diet)
DHEA-S: 182.2
Estradiol: 41 (was 38 on my last IM dose and 47 on my 200mg/week IM dose)
B12: 843 (high - perhaps my pre-workout was boosting?)
Vitamin D: 41
C-Reactive Protein: 1.0 (was 3.3 last November!)
Total Cholesterol: 161 (was 179 in Nov, 155 in June of last year)
Triglycerides: 154 (was 164 in Nob, 229 in June of last year)
dHDL: 34 (was 33 in Nov, 25 in June of last year)
LDL: 96 (was 113 in Nov, 83 in June of last year)
Hemoglobin: 16.6 (was 16.9 in Nov, 17.9 in June of last year)
Hematocrit: 46.8 (was 49.9 in NOv, 53.2 in June of last year)


As you can see, my lipid panel has had HUGE improvements since last year. I attribute this to the low carb/high fat diet I moved to in September. The only meds I'm on is Testosterone - NO STATINS or anything else.

Ha ha.  That's amazining.  You know I am on 30 mg every other day subQ.  So it's interesting the different dosing we need.  If I remember right, you're just a bigger guy than me tho, so that makes sense.

Hey, I'm glad your lipids are improving, but you need to keep working on them and the reason I say that is you need to get your apoB or LDL-P much lower.  Well, you didn't mention the #, but I can tell almost for sure from your lipids that that is high.  And this has NOTHING to do with low carb by the way.  You can get your apoB (LDL-P) in line with a wide variety of diets.  But it is this number that is the true concentration of LDL in the blood - not the traditional LDL-C number - and it is LDL-P (apoB) that drives the LDL into the artery walls.  If youget it low enough, you cannot get plaque - well, it's much more difficult at least. 

So please check out my materials here:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/LDL-P_Arterial_Plaque_Reversal

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Safe_Levels_Apolipoprotein_B_ApoB

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/LDL-P_Particle_Count_Levels

And, jinEE, I've probably told you this before, but you've got a to read Track Your Plaque.  Dr. Davis is very friendly toward low carb.  he wasn't when he wrote the book, but was friendly toward a Paleo type of diet I guess you might say.  Since he wrote that book, he has become low carb friendly from what I have heard.  So you can feel comfortable with that book and Dr. Davis' approach.

By the way, I don't believe I went after low carb in an any of the above links, so you can read those comfortably.

The issue

1.  Low fat guys have to watch their triglcyerides and HDL:  if these go south, the LDL-P and apoB will rise.

2.  Low carb guys have to watch their LDL-C.   If this goes high, their LDL-P and apoB will rise.

So we both have to be careful and watch our numbers.

[jinNE]

Hi Peak,


Yeah, I seem to need high doses to feel good, though to my credit I spent the last year seeing how low I could go and the effects I would experience; I've given it a very honest try to get to small doses. We'll see how the larger dose works SubQ. I thought about going every other day but I would get confused on what day to do an injection - I find it easier if it's always on the same days. I am 5' 9", 203lb and in the teens now with body fat.


I bought Track Your Plaque based on your recommendation, but man what a yawner that book was. I couldn't get through the first chapter without just being bored to tears - and I usually love reading this stuff. I might have to give it another shot.


I don't have apoB or LDL-P listed in my labs. I have VLDL which is calculated at 31.

[PeakT]

Hi Peak,


Yeah, I seem to need high doses to feel good, though to my credit I spent the last year seeing how low I could go and the effects I would experience; I've given it a very honest try to get to small doses. We'll see how the larger dose works SubQ. I thought about going every other day but I would get confused on what day to do an injection - I find it easier if it's always on the same days. I am 5' 9", 203lb and in the teens now with body fat.


I bought Track Your Plaque based on your recommendation, but man what a yawner that book was. I couldn't get through the first chapter without just being bored to tears - and I usually love reading this stuff. I might have to give it another shot.


I don't have apoB or LDL-P listed in my labs. I have VLDL which is calculated at 31.

Lol!  Sounds like I owe you a lunch.  No, listen:  skip to the heart marker chapter.  That's the best summary of heart markers out there and that is what you need to know today right now before you get up from your chair. 

He talks about targets for VLDL, LDL, apoB/LDL-P, Lp(a), HDL, triglcyerides, CRP, etc. etc.  Just fantastic and, after you read that chapter, you'll owe me lunch.  Remember heart disease is the #1 killer of men and neither of us can afford to ignore that aspect of our health.

 Arteries clear - life is good.  Arteries not clear - life sucks. 

It's almost that simple. 

And I seem to need a bit more T as well.  I would like to live with average T levels around 500 or 600 but it ain't happenin...