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Author Topic: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's  (Read 7684 times)

cujet

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Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« on: August 08, 2015, 12:30:46 pm »
[MODERATOR SPLIT FROM HERE: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=7489.75 ]

  Im getting 0.5ml of cream per day which contains 100mg of Testosterone. Not sure how that matches up with US values...

Just for reference, 1cc = 1ml = 1 gram = 1000mg (of water)

So, if you apply 500mg of cream, 1/2 gram, that contains 100mg T, it would then be a 20% compounded cream. I've never heard of such a cream, but it is possible to produce.

500mg ain't much of a "dollop" so it probably does not spread over a big area of skin. If it really is this concentrated, it might not absorb well on such a small area.

I typically use water to "thin" out my compounded T cream and make it spread properly. Otherwise it's akin to spreading peanut butter. Well, not quite that bad, but you get the idea, it's not liquid.

« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 04:35:42 pm by PeakT »
55 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 200
Height 5' 10"
190mg NPthyroid (natural dessicated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.
 
10% compounded creme. T=725, which feels just right.

xrayguy

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Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2015, 01:42:10 am »
  Im getting 0.5ml of cream per day which contains 100mg of Testosterone. Not sure how that matches up with US values...

Just for reference, 1cc = 1ml = 1 gram = 1000mg (of water)

So, if you apply 500mg of cream, 1/2 gram, that contains 100mg T, it would then be a 20% compounded cream. I've never heard of such a cream, but it is possible to produce.

500mg ain't much of a "dollop" so it probably does not spread over a big area of skin. If it really is this concentrated, it might not absorb well on such a small area.

I typically use water to "thin" out my compounded T cream and make it spread properly. Otherwise it's akin to spreading peanut butter. Well, not quite that bad, but you get the idea, it's not liquid.
Ok, well what I know is that my daily dose is 0.5ml of cream containing 100mg of testosterone. It is a very small amount of cream and can be quickly applied to a small area. The cream is not very thick at all, its made with "lipoderm" and is easily applied. I believe the prescription said "100mg testosterone 20%".

So how many milligrams (mg) of testosterone would you be applying each day then with 2g of 3% testosterone?
Age 48, 5'10" 185lbs, from Canada

Symptoms: Anxiety, abdominal bloating/cramps/tenderness, fatigue, weakness, insomnia.

Rx treatment:
10/21/2015: NOTHING
10/15/2015: 120mg Testosterone cream
9/11/2015: 100mg Testosterone cream, 10/5/2.5mg Cortef
8/1/2015: 100mg Testosterone cream
7/23/2015: 100mg Testosterone cream, 15mg Thyroid
6/30/2015: 100mg Testosterone Cypionate/week, 0.5mg Arimidex 2x/week

Recent Tests March 2016:
T 234 ng/dl (297-850)
E2 19 pg/ml (<54)
SHBG 0.23 (0.20-1.00)
DHEAS 11.8 umol/L (<14.0)
TSH 4.63 mU/L (0.2-4.0)
Free T3: 6.2 pmol/L (3.5-6.5)
Free T4: 16.2 pmol/L (9.0-23.0)
Cortisol AM 279 nmol/L (120-620)
Cortisol PM 166 nmol/L (85-460)

Previous Tests:
T (300-1100ng/dl): 579>507>182>300>369>234
E2 (<54pg/ml): 72>59>43>28>25>19

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2015, 01:42:10 am »


PeakT

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Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2015, 04:32:44 pm »
  Im getting 0.5ml of cream per day which contains 100mg of Testosterone. Not sure how that matches up with US values...

Just for reference, 1cc = 1ml = 1 gram = 1000mg (of water)

So, if you apply 500mg of cream, 1/2 gram, that contains 100mg T, it would then be a 20% compounded cream. I've never heard of such a cream, but it is possible to produce.

500mg ain't much of a "dollop" so it probably does not spread over a big area of skin. If it really is this concentrated, it might not absorb well on such a small area.

I typically use water to "thin" out my compounded T cream and make it spread properly. Otherwise it's akin to spreading peanut butter. Well, not quite that bad, but you get the idea, it's not liquid.

I used to be on a 10% compounded cream, but the doc gave me too small of an amount.  It only got my testosterone into the upper 400's.  And I think 10% is about as high as they go usually.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Osprey

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Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2015, 06:46:14 pm »
I've gotten 20% cream from 2 different compounding pharmacies. Apparently it is not uncommon in that concentration.

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Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2015, 06:46:14 pm »


PeakT

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Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2015, 06:50:20 pm »
Thx Osprey.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

cujet

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Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2015, 06:52:18 pm »

Ok, well what I know is that my daily dose is 0.5ml of cream containing 100mg of testosterone. It is a very small amount of cream and can be quickly applied to a small area. The cream is not very thick at all, its made with "lipoderm" and is easily applied. I believe the prescription said "100mg testosterone 20%".

So how many milligrams (mg) of testosterone would you be applying each day then with 2g of 3% testosterone?

Here is the math: 3% of  (2G) 2000Mg is 0.03 x 2000 = 60Mg. (occasionally I use a touch more than 2 grams, say, 2.5g)

It's generally agreed that only about 10% of what is applied gets absorbed. So, I probably absorb about 6 Mg per day. (6mg being 10% of the 60Mg that are applied)

It's generally said that most healthy men produce between 4 and 7 Mg Testosterone per day, so I am "in the range" and my lab numbers of 700 verify that.

Numbers matter, including lab test numbers. I like to understand how and why something works, or should work. I want my labs correct. There is a wealth of information available now to anyone who bothers to look. Especially when it comes to thyroid and testosterone numbers. Properly located within the, often very wide, range is where I want to be. Actual thyroid levels must be solidly in the range, and high enough to suppress TSH. Same with Testosterone. I read over and over again that many men feel crummy below  T 500. My T range is 450 to 800. Still well within the normal range, but towards the upper end.

Put another way, doctors that give a man a single packet of 25MG Androgel (as mine did) are, at (a very optimistic) 10% absorption, providing only 2.5mg of T per day. Far below what a man naturally produces. That same doctor will then claim that 3 packets is "far too much". We also know that Androgel does not absorb all that well in the required shoulder or sides locations. And that the maximum dose of 4ea 25Mg packets still might not absorb well enough to provide normal levels.

 
« Last Edit: August 09, 2015, 11:12:26 pm by cujet »
55 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 200
Height 5' 10"
190mg NPthyroid (natural dessicated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.
 
10% compounded creme. T=725, which feels just right.

xrayguy

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Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2015, 03:00:45 am »
Here is the math: 3% of  (2G) 2000Mg is 0.03 x 2000 = 60Mg. (occasionally I use a touch more than 2 grams, say, 2.5g)

It's generally agreed that only about 10% of what is applied gets absorbed. So, I probably absorb about 6 Mg per day. (6mg being 10% of the 60Mg that are applied)

It's generally said that most healthy men produce between 4 and 7 Mg Testosterone per day, so I am "in the range" and my lab numbers of 700 verify that.

Thanks cujet for that info. This is interesting because you are saying you get about 60mg applied which equates to 6mg absorbed. My doctor said he was going to start me on 100mg/day and that we can always go up from there. He likes to start low and go up if required. Yet, when I went to the pharmacy, the pharmacist mentioned that he thought the dose was average to "slightly higher" than normal and that I might need to cut down.

Im wondering if there is a difference in the expected absorption percentage as my doctor has instructed for me to apply the cream to the scrotum. Im still wondering a bit about applying the cream to the scrotum as I haven't heard of many guys being told to do that..
Age 48, 5'10" 185lbs, from Canada

Symptoms: Anxiety, abdominal bloating/cramps/tenderness, fatigue, weakness, insomnia.

Rx treatment:
10/21/2015: NOTHING
10/15/2015: 120mg Testosterone cream
9/11/2015: 100mg Testosterone cream, 10/5/2.5mg Cortef
8/1/2015: 100mg Testosterone cream
7/23/2015: 100mg Testosterone cream, 15mg Thyroid
6/30/2015: 100mg Testosterone Cypionate/week, 0.5mg Arimidex 2x/week

Recent Tests March 2016:
T 234 ng/dl (297-850)
E2 19 pg/ml (<54)
SHBG 0.23 (0.20-1.00)
DHEAS 11.8 umol/L (<14.0)
TSH 4.63 mU/L (0.2-4.0)
Free T3: 6.2 pmol/L (3.5-6.5)
Free T4: 16.2 pmol/L (9.0-23.0)
Cortisol AM 279 nmol/L (120-620)
Cortisol PM 166 nmol/L (85-460)

Previous Tests:
T (300-1100ng/dl): 579>507>182>300>369>234
E2 (<54pg/ml): 72>59>43>28>25>19

Osprey

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Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2015, 12:44:26 pm »

Im wondering if there is a difference in the expected absorption percentage as my doctor has instructed for me to apply the cream to the scrotum. Im still wondering a bit about applying the cream to the scrotum as I haven't heard of many guys being told to do that..

I've been to 5 docs for TRT trying to find a good one. The 2 who prescribed cream both said to apply to the scrotum.

From here: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/pdfplus/10.3109/13685538.2015.1048218

"Testosterone creams applied to the scrotum are found to be
over 10 times better absorbed through the scrotum than
through the skin anywhere else in the body [14]."

PeakT

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Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2015, 02:50:09 pm »

Im wondering if there is a difference in the expected absorption percentage as my doctor has instructed for me to apply the cream to the scrotum. Im still wondering a bit about applying the cream to the scrotum as I haven't heard of many guys being told to do that..

I've been to 5 docs for TRT trying to find a good one. The 2 who prescribed cream both said to apply to the scrotum.

From here: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/pdfplus/10.3109/13685538.2015.1048218

"Testosterone creams applied to the scrotum are found to be
over 10 times better absorbed through the scrotum than
through the skin anywhere else in the body [14]."

The problem is that it will very likely send your DHT supraphysiological:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Scrotum

You should pull your DHT.  Just the regular transdermals will do send DHT sky high but putting on the scrotum makes  yet another quantum leap.  Check out what your level is and then decide if you feel comfortable with that:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_labs
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Osprey

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Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2015, 03:10:37 pm »

Im wondering if there is a difference in the expected absorption percentage as my doctor has instructed for me to apply the cream to the scrotum. Im still wondering a bit about applying the cream to the scrotum as I haven't heard of many guys being told to do that..

I've been to 5 docs for TRT trying to find a good one. The 2 who prescribed cream both said to apply to the scrotum.

From here: http://informahealthcare.com/doi/pdfplus/10.3109/13685538.2015.1048218

"Testosterone creams applied to the scrotum are found to be
over 10 times better absorbed through the scrotum than
through the skin anywhere else in the body [14]."

The problem is that it will very likely send your DHT supraphysiological:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Testosterone_Scrotum

You should pull your DHT.  Just the regular transdermals will do send DHT sky high but putting on the scrotum makes  yet another quantum leap.  Check out what your level is and then decide if you feel comfortable with that:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/testosterone_labs

From what I can find on your website, the problems with high DHT would be acne, enlarged prostate, and male pattern baldness.  I have not experienced any of those problems. Is there something else to worry about?

PeakT

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Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2015, 03:19:29 pm »


From what I can find on your website, the problems with high DHT would be acne, enlarged prostate, and male pattern baldness.  I have not experienced any of those problems. Is there something else to worry about?

Example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2658637/

"In conclusion, activation of the NFκB mediated COX-2/iNOS pathway by the selective androgen receptor agonist, DHT, results in a state of vascular inflammation. This effect may contribute to sex-related differences in cerebrovascular pathophysiology."

Going supraphysiological for decades is venturing into uncharted territory with your precious neurons.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

cujet

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Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2015, 05:41:01 pm »

Thanks cujet for that info. This is interesting because you are saying you get about 60mg applied which equates to 6mg absorbed. My doctor said he was going to start me on 100mg/day and that we can always go up from there. He likes to start low and go up if required. Yet, when I went to the pharmacy, the pharmacist mentioned that he thought the dose was average to "slightly higher" than normal and that I might need to cut down.

Im wondering if there is a difference in the expected absorption percentage as my doctor has instructed for me to apply the cream to the scrotum. Im still wondering a bit about applying the cream to the scrotum as I haven't heard of many guys being told to do that..

I can't answer that with personal experience, as I've never tried this method of topical T. Even so, my above thoughts still remain valid. I'm a "lab numbers" guy. I want to know what works and why, and dose accordingly. If you apply 100mg T "down there" and your lab numbers are where you need to be, fantastic. You now know your absorption rate for this particular product. It may, for example, not have any transdermal carrier, and therefore be absorbed less readily. Your doc may know all of this already. Or not....

As others have mentioned, high DHT has traditionally been a problem with this type of application. I don't have any problems with high DHT and creams under my arms.
55 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 200
Height 5' 10"
190mg NPthyroid (natural dessicated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.
 
10% compounded creme. T=725, which feels just right.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Compounded Testosterone Concentrations And Other Q's
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2015, 05:41:01 pm »