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Author Topic: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...  (Read 9090 times)

SomeGuy

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Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« on: September 22, 2015, 08:56:32 pm »
To summarize previous discussions I've had here: I'm currently taking 200mg of testosterone cypionate per week (at 100mg 2x per week). After adjusting my arimidex dosage for a while I'm now at .25mg arimidex 2x per week and that seems perfect. I finally feel like I have everything dialed in and feel great.

My T level at this dose hovers at around 1200, give or take, which is slightly above the high end of normal. My doc says it's fine as long as all of my other lab levels (PSA, hematocrit, DHT, etc) stay ok, and they have. The only side effects I'm experiencing are body acne and increased body hair, which I'm handling fine with OTC topical acne products and a pair of clippers. 

Several members of this forum have counseled me to consider dropping my T dose to keep my levels a little lower. So far I've resisted and gone along with my doc in keeping it higher.  I have been considering lowering it to see I can 1.) get off of the arimidex and 2.) cut down on the acne.

At my doctor visit today they surprised me with a new doctor. She freaked about my T level and wanted to lower my dose. I told her I'd rather not since I just got my arimidex dosage dialed in and all of my lab levels were fine. No dice. She's cutting me down to 0.4mg 2x per week. So I'm going from a total of 200mg weekly to 160mg weekly.

I'm kind of irritated that I have to jump back on the hormonal roller coaster again right after finally getting to a point where I consistently felt good every day. But it may be a blessing in disguise since I was considering cutting the dose a little anyway.

Current protocol -- 66mg Test Cyp 3x per week, 0.1mg Arimidex 3x per week, 125 IU HCG every day.

PeakT

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2015, 09:00:30 pm »
To summarize previous discussions I've had here: I'm currently taking 200mg of testosterone cypionate per week (at 100mg 2x per week). After adjusting my arimidex dosage for a while I'm now at .25mg arimidex 2x per week and that seems perfect. I finally feel like I have everything dialed in and feel great.

My T level at this dose hovers at around 1200, give or take, which is slightly above the high end of normal. My doc says it's fine as long as all of my other lab levels (PSA, hematocrit, DHT, etc) stay ok, and they have. The only side effects I'm experiencing are body acne and increased body hair, which I'm handling fine with OTC topical acne products and a pair of clippers. 

Several members of this forum have counseled me to consider dropping my T dose to keep my levels a little lower. So far I've resisted and gone along with my doc in keeping it higher.  I have been considering lowering it to see I can 1.) get off of the arimidex and 2.) cut down on the acne.

At my doctor visit today they surprised me with a new doctor. She freaked about my T level and wanted to lower my dose. I told her I'd rather not since I just got my arimidex dosage dialed in and all of my lab levels were fine. No dice. She's cutting me down to 0.4mg 2x per week. So I'm going from a total of 200mg weekly to 160mg weekly.

I'm kind of irritated that I have to jump back on the hormonal roller coaster again right after finally getting to a point where I consistently felt good every day. But it may be a blessing in disguise since I was considering cutting the dose a little anyway.

Well, no one has studied that kind of thing in great detail, so it's hard to say for sure.  But I think you have a greater chance of pushing down your HDL artificially when you go that high.  Acne is not fun, of course, but lowered HDL could have longer term consequences.  And, like you pointed out, trying to get off of the Arimidex is a noble goal as well.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2015, 09:00:30 pm »


Dugosian

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2015, 03:38:44 pm »
Hey there SomeGuy.  I really struggle with bacne on TRT and haven't found-out any consistently successful way of treating it.  If you have something that works for you, would you mind sharing info about it?
Age 42
5'10" 195lbs
08/2016:  Total T - 700 ng/dL; E2 - 18.1 pg/mL
06/2016:  Total T - 905 ng/dL; E2 - 22.4 pg/mL (sensitive)
03/2016:  Total T - 1159 ng/dL; E2 - 38.3 pg/mL
12/2015:  Total T - 1351 ng/dL; E2 - 30.5 pg/mL
09/2015:  Total T - 792 ng/dL; E2 - 26.7 pg/mL
07/2015:  Total T - 438 ng/dL; E2 - 7.1 pg/mL
02/2015:  Total T - 758 ng/dL; E2 - 37.4 pg/mL
10/2014:  Total T - 810 ng/dL; E2 - 47.7 pg/mL

Current protocol (06/2016):

70 mg T Cyp. (IM) - 2x/week

SomeGuy

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2015, 04:30:17 pm »
Hey there SomeGuy.  I really struggle with bacne on TRT and haven't found-out any consistently successful way of treating it.  If you have something that works for you, would you mind sharing info about it?

Sure! I've been able to mostly keep it under control but still have a pimple here and there and occasional larger breakouts.  The key seems to be showering asap after you sweat (after working out, working in the yard, whatever), and using salicylic acid and benzyl peroxide products.  It also helps to keep any chest or back hair trimmed down to keep those areas dryer and cleaner, and let the products get to your skin more easily.

I use a salicylic acid body wash (any body wash with 2% salicylic acid should do the trick), salicylic acid body spray (.5% - 2%, depending on how much it dries your skin), and benzyl peroxide 2.5% gel or paste. I use the body wash all over every time I shower, the salicylic acid spray all over my back and chest once or twice per day, and the benzyl peroxide on existing pimples and any areas that often break out just before bed. You can mix and match however you like but the idea is to apply both products 1-3 times per day, as much as your skin can stand without over drying.

I also use salicylic acid cleaning pads and the benzyl peroxide gel to spot treat the occasional pimples that pop up on my face.

If a month or two of strictly following the above doesn't do the trick the next step would be to cut down on your T dosage, or see a dermatologist for a prescription solution. Be wary and do your research if they prescribe Accutane. It can have permanent side effects.
Current protocol -- 66mg Test Cyp 3x per week, 0.1mg Arimidex 3x per week, 125 IU HCG every day.

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #3 on: September 23, 2015, 04:30:17 pm »


cujet

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2015, 05:32:37 pm »
So, I've been where you are at 1200 on exactly the same injection dose too. I found it to be too much. I also had plenty of acne with that regimen. However, I honestly can't say that I felt well on that dose. As I retained water and the injections caused breathing issues.

I actually feel better with my levels at 700.

I'm currently using 5% cream and it's working wonderfully. With no "roller coaster" ride and no annoying injection side effects. Plus my face is not bloated now either.
58 years old
Autoimmune Hashimoto's, near zero natural T production
Cause: severe mononucleosis in my early 30's
Weight 235 and climbing despite eating far less
Height 5' 10"
180mg NPthyroid (natural desiccated pigs thyroid)
Labs (Oct 2017) , my T=730, TSH 0.03, T3+T4 mid-range normal.
Prednisone 10mg/day (no ACTH, dangerously low cortisol)
 
10% compounded creme. T=725, which feels just right.

SomeGuy

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2015, 07:08:36 pm »
So, I've been where you are at 1200 on exactly the same injection dose too. I found it to be too much. I also had plenty of acne with that regimen. However, I honestly can't say that I felt well on that dose. As I retained water and the injections caused breathing issues.

I actually feel better with my levels at 700.

I'm currently using 5% cream and it's working wonderfully. With no "roller coaster" ride and no annoying injection side effects. Plus my face is not bloated now either.

I have no facial bloat and no apparent water retention. But it's good to know that a lot of guys do feel great at lower levels. Hopefully I will too.
Current protocol -- 66mg Test Cyp 3x per week, 0.1mg Arimidex 3x per week, 125 IU HCG every day.

Dugosian

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2015, 09:37:48 pm »
Thanks for the info; my next step is going to be to try "Defense" body soap.  I do Krav Maga a few times a week and I sweat a lot so keeping clean is a challenge.  I hadn't heard of body sprays with the salicylic acid before, need to look into that!
Age 42
5'10" 195lbs
08/2016:  Total T - 700 ng/dL; E2 - 18.1 pg/mL
06/2016:  Total T - 905 ng/dL; E2 - 22.4 pg/mL (sensitive)
03/2016:  Total T - 1159 ng/dL; E2 - 38.3 pg/mL
12/2015:  Total T - 1351 ng/dL; E2 - 30.5 pg/mL
09/2015:  Total T - 792 ng/dL; E2 - 26.7 pg/mL
07/2015:  Total T - 438 ng/dL; E2 - 7.1 pg/mL
02/2015:  Total T - 758 ng/dL; E2 - 37.4 pg/mL
10/2014:  Total T - 810 ng/dL; E2 - 47.7 pg/mL

Current protocol (06/2016):

70 mg T Cyp. (IM) - 2x/week

SomeGuy

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #7 on: November 11, 2015, 10:46:31 pm »
Update: It's now been a little over a month on my new protocol - 160mg test cyp per week (split up into 3 weekly injections), 100 IU HCG per day, ZERO arimidex. I've also switched from IM to subQ.

I felt pretty bad until a week or so ago. Lots of low T symptoms. Now my levels seem to have stabilized again. I feel pretty good, but not as good as I did at 200mg per week. I have  a lot of fatigue, mild ED sometimes, and I'm somewhat more irritable and negative. I'm not sure if my T is too low or my E2 is elevated. I should have new lab results back soon.  On the plus side my back acne has improved a lot. Also, this might just be placebo or wishful thinking but it looks to me like I have less hair on my back now.

I've also become fed up with the new doc that I've been switched to so I'm going to give Defy Medical a try. I just submitted the paperwork and will be scheduling my first appointment soon.  Wish me luck!
Current protocol -- 66mg Test Cyp 3x per week, 0.1mg Arimidex 3x per week, 125 IU HCG every day.

SomeGuy

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2015, 05:30:53 pm »
Update: It's now been close to 2 months on this new protocol. I feel like crap. ED, bad mood, no energy or motivation. I just got some labs back and my T is ranging between 700-900 while my E2 is at 37. Still have a good amount of acne on my back.

I have my first consultation with Dr. Saya at Defy later today. Hopefully everything will go well and I'll be back on track soon!
Current protocol -- 66mg Test Cyp 3x per week, 0.1mg Arimidex 3x per week, 125 IU HCG every day.

kcrunner

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2015, 05:43:01 pm »
Update: It's now been close to 2 months on this new protocol. I feel like crap. ED, bad mood, no energy or motivation. I just got some labs back and my T is ranging between 700-900 while my E2 is at 37. Still have a good amount of acne on my back.

I have my first consultation with Dr. Saya at Defy later today. Hopefully everything will go well and I'll be back on track soon!

That is still a pretty high T level.   I bet less than 5% of guys are naturally that high on average.   I wonder what is going on for you not to be feeling well?
Age: 43
Height: 6,1
Weight: 180
Total Testosterone: 829 ng/dl
Free Testosterone: 22 ng/dl
Current Meds:  Levothyroxine 175mcg, Testosterone Cyp Intra-Muscular 100 mg every 5 days.
Supplements-
Multivitamin
Magnesium
Vitamin D
B Complex
Fish Oil

SomeGuy

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2015, 05:46:40 pm »
That is still a pretty high T level.   I bet less than 5% of guys are naturally that high on average.   I wonder what is going on for you not to be feeling well?

It could be that I was consistently at 1200-1400 for almost a year before dropping down and I'm having trouble adjusting to this lower level. Or it could be the high E2. I'm guessing it's due to E2.
Current protocol -- 66mg Test Cyp 3x per week, 0.1mg Arimidex 3x per week, 125 IU HCG every day.

PeakT

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2015, 07:27:28 pm »
Update: It's now been close to 2 months on this new protocol. I feel like crap. ED, bad mood, no energy or motivation. I just got some labs back and my T is ranging between 700-900 while my E2 is at 37. Still have a good amount of acne on my back.

I have my first consultation with Dr. Saya at Defy later today. Hopefully everything will go well and I'll be back on track soon!

Let us know how things go!
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

SomeGuy

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2015, 10:41:31 pm »
Just got off the phone with Dr. Saya at Defy. I'm very happy and impressed so far. After my past experiences it's incredibly refreshing to talk to a doctor who has a good handle on TRT and actually knows more than the average PeakT member!  :)

I had sent him a summary of my previous labs and treatments. He had reviewed this before our call and was ready to go. He suggested a new protocol based on my historical lab numbers and how I'd felt at various serum levels/doses. We discussed how my labs had reacted at various dosages of T and Arimidex and he based his protocol on that. I asked if we could split his recommended T and AI doses into 3x per week instead of 2x and he said no problem. I got the feeling that he really tailors his treatment plans to the individual rather than just throwing out a default protocol and going from there.

One cool thing of note is that they use compounded Arimidex capsules to conveniently deliver much smaller dosages. He has me on 0.1mg of Arimidex 3x per week. That wouldn't be possible by splitting up the 1mg tablets, which I had trouble just splitting in half evenly!

I spent the rest of the appointment time asking him questions about my thyroid and lipids, which he also seemed very knowledgeable about.

We'll follow up with labs and another appointment in 8 weeks and adjust from there. I feel very good about this so far.  My full new protocol is in my signature.
Current protocol -- 66mg Test Cyp 3x per week, 0.1mg Arimidex 3x per week, 125 IU HCG every day.

PeakT

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2015, 02:10:20 am »


One cool thing of note is that they use compounded Arimidex capsules to conveniently deliver much smaller dosages. He has me on 0.1mg of Arimidex 3x per week. That wouldn't be possible by splitting up the 1mg tablets, which I had trouble just splitting in half evenly!

Yeah, this is huge and a great example of the value of compounding pharmacies, eh?
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

SomeGuy

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Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2015, 03:00:51 pm »
I took an (approximated) 0.1mg of arimidex yesterday while waiting for my new compounded capsules to be delivered. I feel much better already. Not 100% by any means, but much better than before. My problem was definitely high E2.
Current protocol -- 66mg Test Cyp 3x per week, 0.1mg Arimidex 3x per week, 125 IU HCG every day.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: Looks like I'll be cutting down on the testosterone a bit...
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2015, 03:00:51 pm »