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Author Topic: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question  (Read 9371 times)

BodyDouble

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Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« on: October 13, 2015, 09:39:16 pm »
to refresh, I have been doing a daily inj. of 8ml, I was using a clinic that was pushing in what my opinion was a body builder regimen, so I was basically just doing my own dosing with minimal oversight.  After testing my e2 with the sensitive test, the last two tests came back with slightly elevated levels.  I think somewhere around 35-39.  I have tried DIM as well as calcium d-glucarate without bringing the level into the target zone.  In my current medicine cabinet I have .5mg caps of anastrozole, which I have avoided taking.  I was taking the standard dose of HCG, but a while back I stopped that, not overly caring about atrophy.  My latest T level was right about 699, which I have been feeling pretty good on.  It dropped a little from previous, not sure why, but not too worried at this point. 

lately I have been experiencing urgency, which I am curious if it is due to the slightly elevated e2, or maybe not.  At any rate, I have decided since I have been unsuccessful dealing with the e2, that I want to stop self administering until I can find someone whom I trust and agree with on a test protocol.

So, now on to my question.  I was prescribed a reboot program to reboot my system before continuing test by my last clinic.  Instead of taking that reboot as prescribed, I still have the medicine, and am now thinking I will do the reboot and then stop the test.  I have heard that it will reboot people's production, even though it might dwindle back down to pre-boot levels over time.  I am not concerned about that so much right now, but I am curious 1 if I am missing something, and two, also the main question:

As part of my reboot protocol, included is a daily dose of anastrozole.  I am worried about taking this at all, let alone when not injecting test.  The reboot protocol is a daily dose of ClomiPHENE Citrate as well as HCG.  Do these serve to elevate the e2 levels?  Should I be considering some type of aromatase inhibitor? 

Hopefully I can get some input here, I am mostly looking for a stop-gap until I can find a better source for oversight and direction.

Thanks in advance!

BD
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 09:47:19 pm by BodyDouble »

xrayguy

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2015, 07:57:56 am »
I would think your decision to use an aromatase inhibitor should be based on the amount of aromatase activity your body has. If you have a higher body fat content and your estradiol is high, then it would be something to consider if DIM or other supplements don't do the trick. If your E2 is fine (20-30), then you don't want Arimidex or you could crash your estradiol in days.
Age 48, 5'10" 185lbs, from Canada

Symptoms: Anxiety, abdominal bloating/cramps/tenderness, fatigue, weakness, insomnia.

Rx treatment:
10/21/2015: NOTHING
10/15/2015: 120mg Testosterone cream
9/11/2015: 100mg Testosterone cream, 10/5/2.5mg Cortef
8/1/2015: 100mg Testosterone cream
7/23/2015: 100mg Testosterone cream, 15mg Thyroid
6/30/2015: 100mg Testosterone Cypionate/week, 0.5mg Arimidex 2x/week

Recent Tests March 2016:
T 234 ng/dl (297-850)
E2 19 pg/ml (<54)
SHBG 0.23 (0.20-1.00)
DHEAS 11.8 umol/L (<14.0)
TSH 4.63 mU/L (0.2-4.0)
Free T3: 6.2 pmol/L (3.5-6.5)
Free T4: 16.2 pmol/L (9.0-23.0)
Cortisol AM 279 nmol/L (120-620)
Cortisol PM 166 nmol/L (85-460)

Previous Tests:
T (300-1100ng/dl): 579>507>182>300>369>234
E2 (<54pg/ml): 72>59>43>28>25>19

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2015, 07:57:56 am »


PeakT

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2015, 08:35:54 am »
to refresh, I have been doing a daily inj. of 8ml, I was using a clinic that was pushing in what my opinion was a body builder regimen, so I was basically just doing my own dosing with minimal oversight.  After testing my e2 with the sensitive test, the last two tests came back with slightly elevated levels.  I think somewhere around 35-39.  I have tried DIM as well as calcium d-glucarate without bringing the level into the target zone.  In my current medicine cabinet I have .5mg caps of anastrozole, which I have avoided taking.  I was taking the standard dose of HCG, but a while back I stopped that, not overly caring about atrophy.  My latest T level was right about 699, which I have been feeling pretty good on.  It dropped a little from previous, not sure why, but not too worried at this point. 

lately I have been experiencing urgency, which I am curious if it is due to the slightly elevated e2, or maybe not.  At any rate, I have decided since I have been unsuccessful dealing with the e2, that I want to stop self administering until I can find someone whom I trust and agree with on a test protocol.

So, now on to my question.  I was prescribed a reboot program to reboot my system before continuing test by my last clinic.  Instead of taking that reboot as prescribed, I still have the medicine, and am now thinking I will do the reboot and then stop the test.  I have heard that it will reboot people's production, even though it might dwindle back down to pre-boot levels over time.  I am not concerned about that so much right now, but I am curious 1 if I am missing something, and two, also the main question:

As part of my reboot protocol, included is a daily dose of anastrozole.  I am worried about taking this at all, let alone when not injecting test.  The reboot protocol is a daily dose of ClomiPHENE Citrate as well as HCG.  Do these serve to elevate the e2 levels?  Should I be considering some type of aromatase inhibitor? 

Hopefully I can get some input here, I am mostly looking for a stop-gap until I can find a better source for oversight and direction.

Thanks in advance!

BD

So you're taking HCG right now?  What are your testosterone levels?
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

SumTingWong

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2015, 10:13:24 am »
Quote
I will do the reboot and then stop the test.

You need to stop the testosterone replacement before starting the reboot.

Quote
The reboot protocol is a daily dose of ClomiPHENE Citrate as well as HCG

Clomiphene I understand, but why take HCG at the same time?
I am not medically trained or qualified. This is not medical advice.

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2015, 10:13:24 am »


BodyDouble

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2015, 08:55:47 pm »
I would think your decision to use an aromatase inhibitor should be based on the amount of aromatase activity your body has. If you have a higher body fat content and your estradiol is high, then it would be something to consider if DIM or other supplements don't do the trick. If your E2 is fine (20-30), then you don't want Arimidex or you could crash your estradiol in days.

I can agree with this, the problem is that the clinic I used prescribed a huge does of AI, and they also want me to be taking a huge dose of cyp.  I don't agree with either of these things.  If I had someone prescribing me a lower does of AI I might consider taking it, I am just not at a comfort level with the current Rx.

BodyDouble

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2015, 08:57:30 pm »
So you're taking HCG right now?  What are your testosterone levels?

I am not taking HCG right now, I was going to start again with the reboot.  my e2 is 39 (sensitive) and my T is at 699.

BD

BodyDouble

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2015, 09:01:58 pm »
Quote
I will do the reboot and then stop the test.

You need to stop the testosterone replacement before starting the reboot.

Quote
The reboot protocol is a daily dose of ClomiPHENE Citrate as well as HCG

Clomiphene I understand, but why take HCG at the same time?

Sorry if I wasn't clear before, I won't be taking test during the reboot, when I stated I would stop test after the reboot I meant all together.  My clinic wanted me to reboot and immediately restart the test. 

I don't know what standard protocol is for a reboot, especially since the clinic I was using was wanting a yearly reboot and immediate restart with cyp.  They prescribed the clomiphene and hcg at the same time.  I am open to input on dosing and what to use for a reboot.  They are wanting me to take 50mg a day of clomiphene, 20 units HCG daily, and then .5mg of anastrozole daily. 

Baldur2630

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2015, 01:12:57 am »
A friend of mine who is a power lifter but also on TRT, what he calls cruise & blast.

On cruise, he takes 125mg T cyp weekly. On blast, he takes 250mg T weekly. Like me he takes HCG regularly to stop testicle shrinkage. He also takes a low dose of Aromasin, just enough to stabilize his e2.

I few months ago, he decided to do a reboot, but he doesn't use a doctor at all. He did some research amongst other lifters and bodybuilders and they told him to do PCT for three weeks.

First stop all Testosterone (and other stuff he takes)

Week 1 - 3 x 50mg Clomid daily, 1,000 IU HCG EOD.
Week 2 - 2 x 50mg Clomid daily, 1,000 IU HCG EOD
Week 3 - 1 x 50 mg Clomid daily 1,000 IU HCG EOD.

After that, back to his cruise dose for 6 weeks and get new blood work.

It seems that in Europe, this is the recommended way to do a reboot. In the USA, bodybuilders are using something called HCGenerate ES and N2Guard to get the same results.

My friend felt like crap for all 3 weeks, no libido, aches and pains, inability to concentrate, tired all the time, but 2 weeks after he started TRT again, he was back firing on all cylinders. He was told NOT to take any form of AI during the three weeks.

Now here's my 2 cents. If it works for tens, if not hundreds or thousands of bodybuilders/weight lifters all taking illegal steroids, and they have had to pool knowledge and experiences over the years, why must I argue.

Now which would I rather trust, a doctor(?), seemingly no two of which ever think the same, or the pool of experiences of many people who have tested this over a long number of years? Do I really need to think about this.

Just my 2 cents.
76 year old. Weight Lifter. On TRT and HGH. Don't believe in doctors. Don't get sick, don't die.

Growing old gracefully is not an option!

PeakT

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2015, 05:29:22 am »
Quote
I will do the reboot and then stop the test.

You need to stop the testosterone replacement before starting the reboot.

Quote
The reboot protocol is a daily dose of ClomiPHENE Citrate as well as HCG

Clomiphene I understand, but why take HCG at the same time?

Sorry if I wasn't clear before, I won't be taking test during the reboot, when I stated I would stop test after the reboot I meant all together.  My clinic wanted me to reboot and immediately restart the test. 

I don't know what standard protocol is for a reboot, especially since the clinic I was using was wanting a yearly reboot and immediate restart with cyp.  They prescribed the clomiphene and hcg at the same time.  I am open to input on dosing and what to use for a reboot.  They are wanting me to take 50mg a day of clomiphene, 20 units HCG daily, and then .5mg of anastrozole daily.

.5 mg of anastrozole daily?? You sure about that?  That will almost for sure slam your estradiol down to the floor.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

euphorixx1

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2015, 03:52:51 pm »
I would HIGHLY recommend you not taking that much Clomid.  First, I am sure this does work for some bodybuilders, but if you do a search for Clomid restarts, you will see 100s+ guys saying they feel TERRIBLE on that much clomid.

The latest protocols, from doctors @ defy etc, is 12.5MG daily for 30 days.

Week 1 - 3 x 50mg Clomid daily, 1,000 IU HCG EOD.
Week 2 - 2 x 50mg Clomid daily, 1,000 IU HCG EOD
Week 3 - 1 x 50 mg Clomid daily 1,000 IU HCG EOD.

If this means 150mg of clomid daily for week 1, 100mg daily for week 2, and 50mg daily for week 3.  Then this is a really really bad protocol for most guys.  That is going to drive your T level up into the 1000s.  There have been numerous studies done that shows that more clomid doenst actually restart the system any more effectively than 12.5-25mg/day.

I just finished my restart @15mg/day of Clomid and have had no side effects or issues.

Do what you want, but I highly recommend researching more on clomid before jumping in, it has a 13 day half life so any side effects are going to stick around for a while... and vision issues can be permanent.


PeakT

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2015, 05:33:57 pm »
I would HIGHLY recommend you not taking that much Clomid.  First, I am sure this does work for some bodybuilders, but if you do a search for Clomid restarts, you will see 100s+ guys saying they feel TERRIBLE on that much clomid.

The latest protocols, from doctors @ defy etc, is 12.5MG daily for 30 days.

Week 1 - 3 x 50mg Clomid daily, 1,000 IU HCG EOD.
Week 2 - 2 x 50mg Clomid daily, 1,000 IU HCG EOD
Week 3 - 1 x 50 mg Clomid daily 1,000 IU HCG EOD.

If this means 150mg of clomid daily for week 1, 100mg daily for week 2, and 50mg daily for week 3.  Then this is a really really bad protocol for most guys.  That is going to drive your T level up into the 1000s.  There have been numerous studies done that shows that more clomid doenst actually restart the system any more effectively than 12.5-25mg/day.

I just finished my restart @15mg/day of Clomid and have had no side effects or issues.

Do what you want, but I highly recommend researching more on clomid before jumping in, it has a 13 day half life so any side effects are going to stick around for a while... and vision issues can be permanent.

Great info euphorixx.  Thx...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program.aspx
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Boxcar

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2015, 07:56:20 pm »
So a reboot only takes 30 days with clomid?

I thought it took several months, or even up to a year after long-term use.
Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

euphorixx1

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2015, 08:41:02 pm »
So a reboot only takes 30 days with clomid?

I thought it took several months, or even up to a year after long-term use.

Well this was what defy recommended.   I'm only 31, and was on trt for about a year.  So I'm hoping I restart.  The next goal is to find out why I was low.

BodyDouble

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #13 on: October 16, 2015, 09:24:49 pm »
.5 mg of anastrozole daily?? You sure about that?  That will almost for sure slam your estradiol down to the floor.

Yes, that is what I was prescribed.

BodyDouble

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2015, 09:30:04 pm »
Thanks for the reply euphorixx1, great info.  I am still doing research, and was more curious about the need for the arimidex while taking clomid.  I don't plan on following the prescribed dosing.  This is why I am no longer with that clinic, they seem more intent on supplying body builder types, and that wasn't what I am after.  I am thinking I will do the 12.5mg per day and HCG of around 25 units per week.  Give it 30 days and see how I feel.  Then get some blood work.  I would really like to find a urologist or endo and get on a more reasonable protocol. 

thanks everyone for the input!!

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Re: Thinking about a reboot and off T - arimidex question
« Reply #14 on: October 16, 2015, 09:30:04 pm »