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Author Topic: A related question after reading Weight Lifting and arteries hardening  (Read 6036 times)

LowTMale

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After reading your article
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Weight_Lifting_Arteries

a question came up in my mind, whether HIIT can also have the same kind of damage? As far I have seen, research suggests the opposite, that it lowers blood pressure, but what about during the exercise? Since HIIT is has a large anaerobic component, there should be a spike in blood pressure and perhaps hardening of arteries as well? What do you think? I do maximum effort HIIT on alternate days, the CNS is pushed so much during the exercise that occasionally I will get a pulsing nerve syndrome in the head, not sure about its effect on arteries.

PeakT

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Re: A related question after reading Weight Lifting and arteries hardening
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 04:33:27 pm »
Those are really separate issues as far as I know.  The potential issues with heavy lifting all center around the very high transient blood pressures generated.  I don't see how HIIT can do that.

I would really recommend, though, that you watch the video in this thread:

https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=754.0

It has a great summary of some other issues they've found with cardio.   
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Re: A related question after reading Weight Lifting and arteries hardening
« Reply #1 on: December 16, 2012, 04:33:27 pm »


LowTMale

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Re: A related question after reading Weight Lifting and arteries hardening
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2012, 07:12:42 am »
Yes I had already come across the news that marathon sessions are proving to be bad. When I do steady state cardio I do it only for 46 minutes including warmup & cooldown.
What raised the question in my mind is that when I'm sitting on that killing machine (recumbent cycle) I fear and going all out, both cardiovascular system and the thigh muscles are in top action, so I thought the latter might be similar in effect to the leg press weight training.

PeakT

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Re: A related question after reading Weight Lifting and arteries hardening
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 03:55:13 pm »
Yes I had already come across the news that marathon sessions are proving to be bad. When I do steady state cardio I do it only for 46 minutes including warmup & cooldown.
What raised the question in my mind is that when I'm sitting on that killing machine (recumbent cycle) I fear and going all out, both cardiovascular system and the thigh muscles are in top action, so I thought the latter might be similar in effect to the leg press weight training.

I haven't read any articles on HIIT raising blood pressure that high. 

However, I'm not sure they really have their arms around the issue yet.  For example, did you know that 1/3 of strokes occur when people are defecating?  It turns out squatting can raise blood pressure significantly even w/o weights.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/1399412.stm

Our bodies were born for walking and, of course, can handle significant running, climbing and other activities that involve our own body weight.  As mentioned about, you can go too far with this of course.

Now, before, I say anything else, I should point out that cardio is actually prescribed, if you will, by one study on weight lifters.  A little cardio done after weights preserved arterial function:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17872406

But that doesn't answer your question about intensity.  I guess my only comment is that I have not seen any studies showing high intensity cardio an hurt or age arteries and I doubt they will find any since this is part of our past.  Futhermore, this is verifed, I think, by the fact that a number of studies show that higher intensity cardio improves arterial parameters in many cases:

http://heart.bmj.com/content/78/1/22.short
"Non-invasive measurement of endothelial function: effect on brachial artery dilatation of graded endothelial dependent and independent stimuli."

http://cardiovascres.oxfordjournals.org/content/67/1/161.short
"Moderate vs. high exercise intensity: Differential effects on aerobic fitness, cardiomyocyte contractility, and endothelial function"
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Re: A related question after reading Weight Lifting and arteries hardening
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2012, 03:55:13 pm »


JackAndy

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Re: A related question after reading Weight Lifting and arteries hardening
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2012, 04:11:31 pm »
I'm not a doctor, but I have one logical hangup on these blood pressure during workouts thing. The blood pressure is increasing because the muscles are squeezing the veins, not because the vein is squeezing the blood or because the heart is pushing harder (well it's probably more like a 70/30 because the heart should be working a little more). I don't think any doctor or scientist would say that this would cause atherosclerosis. There may have been an observation that there is a correlation between arterial stiffness and weight lifting, but like almost all exercise studies it's almost impossible to establish a control group and an experiment group. We don't know what other lifestyle differences there are between the groups compared in these studies. The bodybuilders who were studied could have also been eating McDonalds every day.
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PeakT

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Re: A related question after reading Weight Lifting and arteries hardening
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2012, 04:26:45 pm »
I'm not a doctor, but I have one logical hangup on these blood pressure during workouts thing. The blood pressure is increasing because the muscles are squeezing the veins, not because the vein is squeezing the blood or because the heart is pushing harder (well it's probably more like a 70/30 because the heart should be working a little more). I don't think any doctor or scientist would say that this would cause atherosclerosis. There may have been an observation that there is a correlation between arterial stiffness and weight lifting, but like almost all exercise studies it's almost impossible to establish a control group and an experiment group. We don't know what other lifestyle differences there are between the groups compared in these studies. The bodybuilders who were studied could have also been eating McDonalds every day.

Sure.  I can't argue.  Like I said, they're just getting their arms wrapped around it. 

But it could be an issue for reason that you're really not listing above.  For example, did you know that most of the lesions occur in areas where the pressure and flow are altered?  Having super high pressure could lead to increased lesions.  Who knows?

Again, I love weight lifting.  But I have to be honest and admit to myself that the body was designed for a lot of walking and a little climbing and running.  It wasn't built to hoist massive quantities of weight.  That's something the Pharaoh's did to unwilling slaves and lords to serfs...
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JackAndy

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Re: A related question after reading Weight Lifting and arteries hardening
« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2012, 04:42:44 pm »
Peak you sound like you're turning Paleo on me. I just can't follow the Paleo logic because sometimes it gets a little absurd. So I don't like saying what the body was designed to do or not to do too much beyond the fact that we aren't built to fly. Good points though.
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PeakT

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Re: A related question after reading Weight Lifting and arteries hardening
« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2012, 05:45:41 pm »
Peak you sound like you're turning Paleo on me.

Lol.  First of all, one thing I find irritating about calling it "Paleo" is the fact that emphasizes only the recent part of our development.  Obviously, were 100's of thousands of years before that that was much more important. 

But one thing I have noticed is, imo, you get into trouble when you start doing things that the body was never intended to do.  A good example of this is megadosing.  So far megadosing vitamins just has not worked out well and I think it is because you're doing something that is way beyond normal physiological ranges.  It's just very naive to think you can go way beyond normal and everything is going to magically work out with something as complex as the human body. 

Another example are ingested chemicals.  It rarely works out to throw a bunch of chemicals in the body:  it's just not built for that.

Now that's my two cents...
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JackAndy

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Re: A related question after reading Weight Lifting and arteries hardening
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2012, 04:09:06 am »

But one thing I have noticed is, imo, you get into trouble when you start doing things that the body was never intended to do.  A good example of this is megadosing.  So far megadosing vitamins just has not worked out well and I think it is because you're doing something that is way beyond normal physiological ranges.  It's just very naive to think you can go way beyond normal and everything is going to magically work out with something as complex as the human body. 

I'm going to stick my foot in my mouth now and use Paleo logic, but this came from Dr. Pauling actually not me. He said that the reason we need to megadose vitamin C is because unlike other animals, we can't make our own. When they look at the levels of vitamin c in other animals bodies, they find that they are quite high, the kinds of levels you could only get from megadosing. His theory was that humans used to have the ability to make their own vitamin C when they were mainly eating meat but at some point we got into eating plants too and evolved out of being able to make vitamin C because we had it in our diets instead. So that's why our bodies require vitamin C or else we will get sick, but we are unable to make it. That's just what he said and it made sense to me.

The reason I believe it is because of Dr. Pauling's authority. He was one of the greatest minds of the 20th century and won the nobel peace prize for discovering sickle cell anemia. He isn't just trying to make money selling a book and he isn't just your average genius either. When he talks in his videos, you'll be blown away by the science. Usually I can kind of follow people when they talk about a science I am unfamiliar with, but he is on a whole different level. So yes I am more likely to believe Dr. Pauling's claims because of his reputation and achievements even if I don't understand the science completely myself. Even to this day, the Linus Pauling institute continues to do research on vitamin C and nothing has changed.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 04:17:08 am by JackAndy »
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PeakT

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Re: A related question after reading Weight Lifting and arteries hardening
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2012, 04:30:41 am »
Yes, there are good arguments for megadosing on Vitamin C.  That's the rare exception imo...
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Re: A related question after reading Weight Lifting and arteries hardening
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2012, 04:30:41 am »