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Author Topic: Cognitive Behavorial Therapy and Neuroplasticity  (Read 7855 times)

Kierkegaard

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Re: Cognitive Behavorial Therapy and Neuroplasticity
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2015, 09:29:13 am »
wow man this is very awesome stuff!! u stated this:

" This is also why I'm livid with doctors who just say "hey, you've just got depression" or anxiety or whatever and not digging deeply beyond this, because pointing out the diagnosis is often just stating what is observed, rather than getting to the deeper root of why the person has such-and-such diagnosis (low cortisol as with PTSD?  Bad thyroid as with depression?)."

THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY RATIONALE BEHIND NOT TAKING ANTIDEPRESSANTS!!!!

everyone ive said this to has shunned me and told me just take ur damn welbutrin, and im sorry but its hard for me to just "accept" that this medication is what i need,

it makes me more mad that psychs dont get any blood work done to look for any dots to connect either...

Antidepressants can be legit, so long as your symptoms fit whatever type of depression you have (low dopamine, low serotonin, low norepinephrine), AND you've ruled out any hormonal or other biological deficiencies.  But if you've done all this, it's looking like your problem is probably pretty exclusively psychological, in which case a good therapist (sadly somewhat rare) would allow you to get around longterm use of antidepressants.  But many people use antidepressants short-term, with some clever therapists who recommend clients take them so they can become motivated enough to try the counseling stuff discussed in session, and then later taper off the medication.  That said, antidepressants barely work better than placebo, and work best for people with the most severe forms of depression.

Quote
this is the next saliva test im taking as well due to adrenal issues and to see if any of these neurotransmitters will show im high or low to help ME help THEM decide IF i NEED MEDS and what type:

http://www.sanescohealth.com/laboratory-profiles/

hpa profile saliva test

i mean how does one tell if its hormones, serotonin, norepinephrine etc....?

im gonna seek counseling and see if that helps as i dont want to medicate something without knowing IF they can tell what it is i need

There's controversy on neurotransmitter testing.  For one you have to choose between blood, saliva, and urine.  Then you have the consideration that any neurotransmitters measured will be an average level for the brain (more specifically metabolites from the brain that are excreted, as is at least the case with urinary testing), but the brain is very specific in using certain neurotransmitters in certain areas and not in others.  That said, I think it's worth a shot.


well one of the main reasons im actually scared to use anti's is all this suicide talk and anxiety stuff we hear, so i go to my psych and told him i have anxiety to which im on xanax for, he gives me wellbutrin and says try it out first, BUT it can or has been known to trigger panic attacks or lead to a higher level of agitation or even more anxiety, and im all like WTF? seriously then why would i try something that could make my stuff worse? how do u know its this stuff that i need? and not something else pertaining to serotonin, or dopamine or norepinephrine?

how does one really know which they are lacking what are the known issues associated with having too low of one or the other of said items? i mean it could be a combo of a few...

am i just a wuss? should i just grab the welbutrin and throw one down to see how i react?

You have anxiety too?  Can you link me to your thyroid results again, or repost them?  Or does your anxiety have a pretty clearcut historical basis in terms of experiences in your life that made you feel anxious?

As for antidepressants, Robert Sapolsky says people with low dopamine have more anhedonia-type (and probably low motivation) depressions, people with low norepinephrine lack energy, and people with serotonin have obsessive thinking or rumination.  Your doc putting you on Wellbutrin knowing you have anxiety is unconscionable; anxiety is often moderated by norepinephrine (some guys apparently have very low levels of NE, which causes anxiety for some reason). 
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
September 2015: Dx hypothyroidism, other adrenal hypofunction
2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

Depression and anxiety guide: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Help_Anxiety_Depression

Avies48

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Re: Cognitive Behavorial Therapy and Neuroplasticity
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2015, 09:39:34 am »
wow man this is very awesome stuff!! u stated this:

" This is also why I'm livid with doctors who just say "hey, you've just got depression" or anxiety or whatever and not digging deeply beyond this, because pointing out the diagnosis is often just stating what is observed, rather than getting to the deeper root of why the person has such-and-such diagnosis (low cortisol as with PTSD?  Bad thyroid as with depression?)."

THIS HAS ALWAYS BEEN MY RATIONALE BEHIND NOT TAKING ANTIDEPRESSANTS!!!!

everyone ive said this to has shunned me and told me just take ur damn welbutrin, and im sorry but its hard for me to just "accept" that this medication is what i need,

it makes me more mad that psychs dont get any blood work done to look for any dots to connect either...

Antidepressants can be legit, so long as your symptoms fit whatever type of depression you have (low dopamine, low serotonin, low norepinephrine), AND you've ruled out any hormonal or other biological deficiencies.  But if you've done all this, it's looking like your problem is probably pretty exclusively psychological, in which case a good therapist (sadly somewhat rare) would allow you to get around longterm use of antidepressants.  But many people use antidepressants short-term, with some clever therapists who recommend clients take them so they can become motivated enough to try the counseling stuff discussed in session, and then later taper off the medication.  That said, antidepressants barely work better than placebo, and work best for people with the most severe forms of depression.

Quote
this is the next saliva test im taking as well due to adrenal issues and to see if any of these neurotransmitters will show im high or low to help ME help THEM decide IF i NEED MEDS and what type:

http://www.sanescohealth.com/laboratory-profiles/

hpa profile saliva test

i mean how does one tell if its hormones, serotonin, norepinephrine etc....?

im gonna seek counseling and see if that helps as i dont want to medicate something without knowing IF they can tell what it is i need

There's controversy on neurotransmitter testing.  For one you have to choose between blood, saliva, and urine.  Then you have the consideration that any neurotransmitters measured will be an average level for the brain (more specifically metabolites from the brain that are excreted, as is at least the case with urinary testing), but the brain is very specific in using certain neurotransmitters in certain areas and not in others.  That said, I think it's worth a shot.


well one of the main reasons im actually scared to use anti's is all this suicide talk and anxiety stuff we hear, so i go to my psych and told him i have anxiety to which im on xanax for, he gives me wellbutrin and says try it out first, BUT it can or has been known to trigger panic attacks or lead to a higher level of agitation or even more anxiety, and im all like WTF? seriously then why would i try something that could make my stuff worse? how do u know its this stuff that i need? and not something else pertaining to serotonin, or dopamine or norepinephrine?

how does one really know which they are lacking what are the known issues associated with having too low of one or the other of said items? i mean it could be a combo of a few...

am i just a wuss? should i just grab the welbutrin and throw one down to see how i react?

You have anxiety too?  Can you link me to your thyroid results again, or repost them?  Or does your anxiety have a pretty clearcut historical basis in terms of experiences in your life that made you feel anxious?

As for antidepressants, Robert Sapolsky says people with low dopamine have more anhedonia-type (and probably low motivation) depressions, people with low norepinephrine lack energy, and people with serotonin have obsessive thinking or rumination.  Your doc putting you on Wellbutrin knowing you have anxiety is unconscionable; anxiety is often moderated by norepinephrine (some guys apparently have very low levels of NE, which causes anxiety for some reason).

past thyroid levels ill post tomorrow as i gots to sleep now!

actually no clear cut anything for my anxiety, i got a big shot of testosterone one day before i left the docs office, went in for a thearaputic phlem passed out at the hospital during it, and whammo anxiety ever since....

see whats odd with the xanax, is i cant take but a quarter of a .5 tablet or i sleep like a baby!! its odd, L-theanine seems to be better for me...

i believe i suffer from a conglomerate of the three u mentioned then as i have no motivation now and use to until this anxiety hit, i lack energy, and i feel as tho i cant be loved at times and over think things way to much all the time...etc... i was told the welbutrin would help me? but im scared to death to even try it....

ive been dealing with another doc for adrenal issues and seem to have started feeling better as of late, but also need to get back on a concrete schedule for my trt....
38 yrs young!
5'10
195 lbs

trt journey:

cyp, hcg, anastrozole, deca, xandrolone (from time to time)

want to give some gh a try someday, if i can afford it, just to see how it all works together with my trt regimen...

wish i didnt need trt, its sometimes a rollercoaster...

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Re: Cognitive Behavorial Therapy and Neuroplasticity
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2015, 09:39:34 am »