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Author Topic: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?  (Read 7416 times)

improvement87

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Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« on: January 03, 2016, 07:53:50 am »
I seriously think if i go any longer with being completely impotent im gonna kill myself...

I dont have any more time to sit around and experiment, i cant spend another year with no results.. im trying this arimidex, low dose clomid/or novla thing  to see if it helps..

if it doesnt help in the next couple months im gonna go to an endo for trying trt or hcg mono

What have experiences been on HCG mono?

I read you have to inject like every day to really be effective.. is that a very pain in the ass time consuming process??? does every other day work well?? that seems somewhat more tolorable..

How about TRT.. im worried that even if i did trt, i would still have to inject HCG to prevent my balls from shutting down because i want to only do it temporarily just to be able to get through the rest of my 20s for the next 5 years or so, until i get my career going, i get with a high quality doc, and maybe can afford pellets, or perhaps i can go totally off when this new drug for secondary hypo hopefully comes out in a few years...

anyway, im not concerned about having kids in the next few years, but at the same time i dont want to permanently shut down or permanently damage anything..

TRT/HCG seems like such a terrible pain in the ass.. having to rub cream on yourself twice a day, with shots 2-3 times a week.. and apparently if you miss even one dose you start collapsing right away.. so that pretty much kills it when trying to go out or stay the night with a girlfirend/friends etc... seems like an incredibly painfully inconvenient way to live... is it possible maybe to get injections, and mix the injection together with hcg all in one shot and just do it every 3 days or so.. so just 1 shot every 3 days to keep everything going? that would be super rad

How long can i go on this trt thing and still be able to come off for a future secondary hypo drug without permament irrecoverable damage? theres one coming out but not sure when..

I figured HCG mono i could maybe tough it out with injections maybe even every other day, ever 2 days to inject once doesnt seem that terrible i think i could live with that..

thoughts>??

I just turned 26..  I cant have sex at all, even with viagra, and im going crazy.. cannot have girlfriend , nothing...

« Last Edit: January 03, 2016, 07:58:53 am by audiognostic »

Kierkegaard

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2016, 09:15:35 am »
I seriously think if i go any longer with being completely impotent im gonna kill myself...

I dont have any more time to sit around and experiment, i cant spend another year with no results.. im trying this arimidex, low dose clomid/or novla thing  to see if it helps..

if it doesnt help in the next couple months im gonna go to an endo for trying trt or hcg mono

What have experiences been on HCG mono?

I read you have to inject like every day to really be effective.. is that a very pain in the ass time consuming process??? does every other day work well?? that seems somewhat more tolorable..

How about TRT.. im worried that even if i did trt, i would still have to inject HCG to prevent my balls from shutting down because i want to only do it temporarily just to be able to get through the rest of my 20s for the next 5 years or so, until i get my career going, i get with a high quality doc, and maybe can afford pellets, or perhaps i can go totally off when this new drug for secondary hypo hopefully comes out in a few years...

anyway, im not concerned about having kids in the next few years, but at the same time i dont want to permanently shut down or permanently damage anything..

TRT/HCG seems like such a terrible pain in the ass.. having to rub cream on yourself twice a day, with shots 2-3 times a week.. and apparently if you miss even one dose you start collapsing right away.. so that pretty much kills it when trying to go out or stay the night with a girlfirend/friends etc... seems like an incredibly painfully inconvenient way to live... is it possible maybe to get injections, and mix the injection together with hcg all in one shot and just do it every 3 days or so.. so just 1 shot every 3 days to keep everything going? that would be super rad

How long can i go on this trt thing and still be able to come off for a future secondary hypo drug without permament irrecoverable damage? theres one coming out but not sure when..

I figured HCG mono i could maybe tough it out with injections maybe even every other day, ever 2 days to inject once doesnt seem that terrible i think i could live with that..

thoughts>??

I just turned 26..  I cant have sex at all, even with viagra, and im going crazy.. cannot have girlfriend , nothing...

Do you have a link to your labs for LH, FSH, testosterone, estradiol, etc., if possible before starting clomid?

Daily hCG injections are cake.  You use a 31 gauge needle and inject subcutaneously; you never feel a thing.  You get so used to it that it only takes literally a minute if you know what you're doing. 

But you'll be taking the plunge into TRT, meaning your LH and FSH will be shut down on hCG.  I don't see why you couldn't have a trial of hCG without shutting down anything permanently; LH and FSH suppression happen on testosterone-only TRT after a few months.  If I had the choice, I probably would've started with daily hCG injections, for no other reason than that hCG mimics LH in the body, and LH is utterly important for keeping pregnenolone-line hormones, especially cortisol, alive.  I also really love the short one day half life of hCG, which means you have more immediate control over your levels; with testosterone cypionate you're looking at a 7 day half life, so if you screw things up, such as by increasing estradiol too high, you have to wait that much longer before things go back to normal. 

It might even be a good idea to just lower your clomid dose even further.  You're at 12.5 ED dosing, right?  Consider trying 12.5 EOD.  There was one guy who posted just once on this forum and talked about clomid totally changing his life in amazing ways -- for two weeks.  Then he developed a panic attack, almost certainly from increased estradiol, and dropped treatment.  He was doing 12.5 EOD, and could have made things better by doing 12.5 E3D.  It happens with a few guys. 

I'd recommend something like lef.org's comprehensive male hormone panel to get a big picture idea of where cortisol, thyroid, and testosterone-related hormones are at before doing the jump to hCG.  Your libido/erection problems could very easily be due to sympathetic overactivation, moderated by high norepinephrine from hypothyroidism and/or low cortisol (which jacks up CRH and therefore the SNS).  As shitty as estradiol can make people feel (again likely mostly because of SNS activation when levels get too high), it's very easy to overidealize estradiol when on any type of TRT. 
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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2016, 09:15:35 am »


Cataceous

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2016, 11:14:53 am »
The evidence does not suggest benefits to daily dosing of hCG versus less-frequent dosing. You'd probably be hard-pressed to notice much difference between ed, eod and e3d. The reasons include not just the half life, but also the testosterone response curves. I've personally tried both ed and eod and noticed no difference. As K says, hCG injections are very easy and fast.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
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SumTingWong

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2016, 12:53:20 pm »
Quote
Daily hCG injections are cake.  You use a 31 gauge needle and inject subcutaneously; you never feel a thing.  You get so used to it that it only takes literally a minute if you know what you're doing. 

Ditto. I can shoot 150IU injections faster than the kettle boils.

I was on 500IU every other day, but it pushed my estradiol too high. On 150IU daily I feel much better, with good libido.

Quote
The evidence does not suggest benefits to daily dosing of hCG versus less-frequent dosing. You'd probably be hard-pressed to notice much difference between ed, eod and e3d. The reasons include not just the half life, but also the testosterone response curves. I've personally tried both ed and eod and noticed no difference. As K says, hCG injections are very easy and fast

An interesting study, but the lowest dose they are using is 500IU daily, which is a horse dose. Also, they aren't taking into account the increased estradiol levels produced with larger doses.
I am not medically trained or qualified. This is not medical advice.

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2016, 12:53:20 pm »


improvement87

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2016, 05:47:29 pm »
if i have a prior pescription for androgel that i refused to use from a urologist, as proof of my problem, do you think it would be difficult for me to find an endo or somebody that would subscribe me hcg injections aand allow me to self inject?

the uro i went to that perscribed me the androgel never even heard of hcg..

Boxcar

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2016, 07:27:33 pm »
if i have a prior pescription for androgel that i refused to use from a urologist, as proof of my problem, do you think it would be difficult for me to find an endo or somebody that would subscribe me hcg injections aand allow me to self inject?

the uro i went to that perscribed me the androgel never even heard of hcg..

Most doctors are going to run blood tests at least once prior to treatment (it helps if you have prior lab results).  For hcg, look for a TRT specialist.  A TRT specialist who also treats fertility issues will definitely know about hcg.  Anti-aging and men's health clinics are good places to try, and if there are none close by, they may know of TRT doctors near you.  I have heard some people suggest asking pharmacies to tell you which doctors prescribe that specific med (for hcg, it seems to be compounding pharmacies), although I don't have experience with that.  Email is sometimes a good way to get this kind of info.
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Tyce

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2016, 09:33:07 am »
I have done all of them ,,, but I did notice , clomid. An or nolva really stuffed with erections , with in a few days of taking it , so I stopped ,,,I could see by those drugs I would have ed if I kept taking them ,,, they work for some guys and not others ,,,,,, hcg is nice way to go if u control estogen ,,, which I'm still trying to work out ,what hcg dose is best for me ,,, , also try the testosterone diet on the forum , ,, , , ,,it seamed to help me , , I currently am taking arimidex  and hcg a few times a week also a supp called testo fuel which is just vitimans ,

PeakT

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2016, 02:52:44 pm »
if i have a prior pescription for androgel that i refused to use from a urologist, as proof of my problem, do you think it would be difficult for me to find an endo or somebody that would subscribe me hcg injections aand allow me to self inject?

the uro i went to that perscribed me the androgel never even heard of hcg..

Yes.  You will probably have to ask for someone deals with fertility to increase your odds.
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electrify

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2016, 08:35:14 am »
Im just wondering regarding the whole permanant shutdown stuff

Isn't HCG mono and TRT with HCG equally suppressive? Or is T/HCG still more suppresive?
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Tyce

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2016, 10:31:38 am »
When I did use sustanon 250 , I used hcg with it , noticed my nuts stayed full size all the way through , hcg with trt is suppose to keep u functioning , and it defiantly felt better than not using it ,

Kierkegaard

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2016, 10:33:10 am »
Im just wondering regarding the whole permanant shutdown stuff

Isn't HCG mono and TRT with HCG equally suppressive? Or is T/HCG still more suppresive?

Both are suppressive, just hCG is recognized as LH by receptors, leading to the same effects despite lack of evidence of LH in serum (given it's, you know, not LH). 
"The same thing that makes you live can kill you in the end." -- Neil Young

March 2014: Dx low T (158ng/dl)
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2016: chronic fatigue, unspecified

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2016, 12:57:36 pm »

Im just wondering regarding the whole permanant shutdown stuff

Isn't HCG mono and TRT with HCG equally suppressive? Or is T/HCG still more suppresive?

Like K said above, both are suppressive. 

It is believed that when hCG is used alongside testosterone, although you will still be shut down, that patients will have an easier time if they ever decide to stop treatment.  The idea being that if your testes are allowed to function normally while on testosterone, they'll be able to receive the gonadotropin signaling from the pituitary gland once that resumes (usually with the help of a SERM).

Cataceous

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2016, 04:58:18 pm »
Im just wondering regarding the whole permanant shutdown stuff

Isn't HCG mono and TRT with HCG equally suppressive? Or is T/HCG still more suppresive?

It's assumed that the hypothalamic and pituitary aspects of the HPT axis are almost completely suppressed in either case. However, the testicular part of the axis should be less suppressed by hCG monotherapy than by TRT and hCG, assuming similar total testosterone levels are achieved. What's best? That's up for debate, and depends in part on the individual. Those needing to reduce estradiol may have to use less hCG and thus accept greater suppression. But if estradiol isn't a problem and a guy is low in hormones such as pregnenolone, DHEA, or progesterone then he may do better with more hCG and less testicular suppression. Even with lab testing there's going to be trial and error.
I am not a medical doctor; any suggestions are meant to be discussed with your doctor.
Age: 60, Ht: 5'10", Wt: 154 lbs
Protocol: 3.2 mg TE subQ qd, 2.4 mg TP subQ qd, 20 mcg GnRH subQ 5.25x/d, 6.25 mg DHEA bid, 12.5 mg enclomiphene qod
Approximate levels (peak): TT: 700 ng/dL, E2: 30 pg/mL, DHEA-S: 300 ug/dL, SHBG: 30 nMol/L

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Re: Thinking of going HCG Mono.. Or TRT temporarily.. thoughts?
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2016, 04:58:18 pm »