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Author Topic: Erectile Dysfunction at 67; I Feel Good with Coconut Oil But Should I Continue?  (Read 12511 times)

PeakT

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I have come to rely on butter as a sort of saturated fat supplement.  I am going to be trying "MTC Oil" -- if you believe the in vitro studies, it may be more DHT-friendly than either butter or coconut oil.

Regarding saturated fat hurting erections, I am only familiar with the information on this site.  From what Peak says, it sounds like post-meal exercise might help mitigate the harm.

I’m still looking for a published paper that suggests a relationship between coconut oil and ED.  As for MCT oils they are not the same.  Coconut oil is solid at room temperature while MCT oils were refined to be liquid at room temperature i.e. something was removed.  I use a small laboratory incubator to keep my coconut oil liquid and slightly warm; very pleasant and smooth when taken by the tablespoon.

I first discovered coconut oil when my daughter was diagnosed with fibromyalgia as a teenager.  She declined to the point where she could barely walk and a myriad of doctors proved useless.  I searched the internet for every wacko suggestion and found three – Vitamin D, CoQ10 & Coconut Oil.  To be safe, we both supplemented with all three together so if there were side-effects I would experience them too.  Her fibromyalgia was completely reversed in a month.  To this very day she refers to coconut oil “liquid energy.”  She can come home exhausted and 2-3 tablespoons of coconut oil and she’s running 5k on the treadmill.  Here is a link that explains how coconut oil is metabolized differently in the body - 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265475789_Virgin_Coconut_Oil_and_Its_Potential_Cardioprotective_Effects

There is no such study as far as I know.  However, look up the "Cake and Shake" study.  Coconut oil, like all saturated fats, does decrease blood flow.  You will see the coconut fans trying to explain away the study results, but the outcome was clear:  decreased endothelial function.  Now this may not bother you if you have enough buffer but that would not work for me.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

explorer

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However, look up the "Cake and Shake" study.  Coconut oil, like all saturated fats, does decrease blood flow.  You will see the coconut fans trying to explain away the study results, but the outcome was clear:  decreased endothelial function.

It's easy to "explain away".

For starters, it was a one day study. It's well known that polyunsaturated fats slow down the metabolic rate. The decrease in body temperature from that then thickens the blood. Coconut oil is thermogenic. Your body temperature and blow flow when you sleep are better when the fatty acids released from your fat stores are saturated. The type of fatty acids released at rest are determined by the type of fat consumed in the long term, not one day.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 04:59:15 pm by explorer »

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jinNE

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I take a tablespoon of MCT oil every morning before my workout, and I have two cups of coffee each morning with a tablespoon of coconut oil in each.


I'm a keto guy though with blood work to back up my progress, so I have a very different perspective on fats. :) I also take a much larger Test dose than most, but it's what works for me.


I think everyone is different and you have to find what works for you...

PeakT

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However, look up the "Cake and Shake" study.  Coconut oil, like all saturated fats, does decrease blood flow.  You will see the coconut fans trying to explain away the study results, but the outcome was clear:  decreased endothelial function.

It's easy to "explain away".

For starters, it was a one day study. It's well known that polyunsaturated fats slow down the metabolic rate. The decrease in body temperature from that then thickens the blood. Coconut oil is thermogenic. Your body temperature and blow flow when you sleep are better when the fatty acids released from your fat stores are saturated. The type of fatty acids released at rest are determined by the type of fat consumed in the long term, not one day.

You have seen my other thread, right?  I showed 11 studies - and there are dozens more - that show that saturated fat slows down blood flow.  So I guess I just find it very weird that all the coconut oil lovers would say, "Well, God has granted miraculous powers to coconut oil and it is the only saturated fat that does not slow down blood flow."  To me that's called avoidance.

Look - I love black tea.  It is good stuff and drops blood pressure in a dose dependent fashion.  But guess what?  Tea also has tannins which binds to minerals and could potentially lower my nutritional status a little. 

So why would I deny that tea has some good properties and some not so good?  None of us human and total angels and it's the same with foods.  We need to be willing dialogue about the good, the bad and the ugly.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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explorer

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You have seen my other thread, right?  I showed 11 studies - and there are dozens more - that show that saturated fat slows down blood flow.  So I guess I just find it very weird that all the coconut oil lovers would say, "Well, God has granted miraculous powers to coconut oil and it is the only saturated fat that does not slow down blood flow."  To me that's called avoidance.

It's not avoidance, is that it's less important that it slows blood flow after a meal. When you should be  most worried about blood flow is at night, when you sleep, when the blood is thickest. You will get some fat to your bloodstream when you're sleeping, from your fat stores. They will be either saturated or unsaturated. If they're unsaturated your body temperature will be lower which will result in thicker blood.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 05:21:34 pm by explorer »

Boxcar

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I have come to rely on butter as a sort of saturated fat supplement.  I am going to be trying "MTC Oil" -- if you believe the in vitro studies, it may be more DHT-friendly than either butter or coconut oil.

Regarding saturated fat hurting erections, I am only familiar with the information on this site.  From what Peak says, it sounds like post-meal exercise might help mitigate the harm.

I’m still looking for a published paper that suggests a relationship between coconut oil and ED.  As for MCT oils they are not the same.  Coconut oil is solid at room temperature while MCT oils were refined to be liquid at room temperature i.e. something was removed.  I use a small laboratory incubator to keep my coconut oil liquid and slightly warm; very pleasant and smooth when taken by the tablespoon.

I first discovered coconut oil when my daughter was diagnosed with fibromyalgia as a teenager.  She declined to the point where she could barely walk and a myriad of doctors proved useless.  I searched the internet for every wacko suggestion and found three – Vitamin D, CoQ10 & Coconut Oil.  To be safe, we both supplemented with all three together so if there were side-effects I would experience them too.  Her fibromyalgia was completely reversed in a month.  To this very day she refers to coconut oil “liquid energy.”  She can come home exhausted and 2-3 tablespoons of coconut oil and she’s running 5k on the treadmill.  Here is a link that explains how coconut oil is metabolized differently in the body - 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/265475789_Virgin_Coconut_Oil_and_Its_Potential_Cardioprotective_Effects

That's interesting.  Vitamin d supplementation helped me a lot with chronic pain.  With the coconut oil, does it have to be the "virgin" grade or is it ok to use the kind that is refined to remove the coconut flavor?
Age: 36
178 lbs 5'8''

Current Treatment: 50 mg testosterone cypionate IM, twice a week
Low T Symptoms: Chronic pelvic pain, and other neuropathic pain.  Mild anxiety, low energy and low motivation
Meds: Amitriptyline (for pain, not depression), Clonidine (for sleep, not blood pressure)

gmorg

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You have seen my other thread, right?  I showed 11 studies - and there are dozens more - that show that saturated fat slows down blood flow.  So I guess I just find it very weird that all the coconut oil lovers would say, "Well, God has granted miraculous powers to coconut oil and it is the only saturated fat that does not slow down blood flow."  To me that's called avoidance.

It's not avoidance, is that it's less important that it slows blood flow after a meal. When you should be  most worried about blood flow is at night, when you sleep, when the blood is thickest. You will get some fat to your bloodstream when you're sleeping, from your fat stores. They will be either saturated or unsaturated. If they're unsaturated your body temperature will be lower which will result in thicker blood.

May I suggest a potential problem with this discussion is defining the term ‘saturated fat.’  Fatty acids nomenclature specifies the number of carbon atoms (C8, C10, C12 etc.) and the number of bonds i.e. saturated fats have a single bond, while unsaturated fats (C18:1 for example) consist of at least one double bond.  In 1977 then Senator George McGovern introduced The Dietary Goals for the United States and lumped all saturated fats together as unhealthy.  We’ve learned a few things since then.

In terms of the human body there are two metabolic pathways separated by the length of the carbon chain; thus medium chain fatty acids (C6 - C12) follow one pathway while long chain fatty acids (C13-C21) follow another.  In simple terms long chain fatty acids enter the blood as lipoproteins to transport triglycerides, phospholipids and to facilitate the exchange of cholesterols between the liver and cells.  Medium chain fatty acids do none of that.  They are routed directly to the liver by the portal vein and transported straight to the cells as energy.  The attachment posted previously shows these pathways.

I’m not disputing the possibilities suggested; just that without the specificity of identifying the individual pathways, the interpretation may be suspect.  A paper focused on coconut oil would resolve this issue.

gmorg

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That's interesting.  Vitamin d supplementation helped me a lot with chronic pain.  With the coconut oil, does it have to be the "virgin" grade or is it ok to use the kind that is refined to remove the coconut flavor?
[/quote]

I don't know the answer to your question, but I suspect the virgin grade is better; that why my wife and I use it.

With that said, my daughter (now cured of Fibromyalgia) uses what you are suggesting for maintenance.  She hates the virgin stuff and figures any must be better than none.  Time will tell when she gets older if her strategy is sound.  I hope this is helpful.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2016, 09:33:53 pm by gmorg »

PeakT

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You have seen my other thread, right?  I showed 11 studies - and there are dozens more - that show that saturated fat slows down blood flow.  So I guess I just find it very weird that all the coconut oil lovers would say, "Well, God has granted miraculous powers to coconut oil and it is the only saturated fat that does not slow down blood flow."  To me that's called avoidance.

It's not avoidance, is that it's less important that it slows blood flow after a meal. When you should be  most worried about blood flow is at night, when you sleep, when the blood is thickest. You will get some fat to your bloodstream when you're sleeping, from your fat stores. They will be either saturated or unsaturated. If they're unsaturated your body temperature will be lower which will result in thicker blood.

May I suggest a potential problem with this discussion is defining the term ‘saturated fat.’  Fatty acids nomenclature specifies the number of carbon atoms (C8, C10, C12 etc.) and the number of bonds i.e. saturated fats have a single bond, while unsaturated fats (C18:1 for example) consist of at least one double bond.  In 1977 then Senator George McGovern introduced The Dietary Goals for the United States and lumped all saturated fats together as unhealthy.  We’ve learned a few things since then.

In terms of the human body there are two metabolic pathways separated by the length of the carbon chain; thus medium chain fatty acids (C6 - C12) follow one pathway while long chain fatty acids (C13-C21) follow another.  In simple terms long chain fatty acids enter the blood as lipoproteins to transport triglycerides, phospholipids and to facilitate the exchange of cholesterols between the liver and cells.  Medium chain fatty acids do none of that.  They are routed directly to the liver by the portal vein and transported straight to the cells as energy.  The attachment posted previously shows these pathways.

I’m not disputing the possibilities suggested; just that without the specificity of identifying the individual pathways, the interpretation may be suspect.  A paper focused on coconut oil would resolve this issue.

Okay, I am going to pose the same challenge to you that I did to Fathomer on the other thread:  tell me how we can raise money to study this most basic of things.  We get dozens of these kind of issues every week and Big Pharma isn't going to fund this.  So how can we make it happen?
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

gmorg

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You have seen my other thread, right?  I showed 11 studies - and there are dozens more - that show that saturated fat slows down blood flow.  So I guess I just find it very weird that all the coconut oil lovers would say, "Well, God has granted miraculous powers to coconut oil and it is the only saturated fat that does not slow down blood flow."  To me that's called avoidance.

It's not avoidance, is that it's less important that it slows blood flow after a meal. When you should be  most worried about blood flow is at night, when you sleep, when the blood is thickest. You will get some fat to your bloodstream when you're sleeping, from your fat stores. They will be either saturated or unsaturated. If they're unsaturated your body temperature will be lower which will result in thicker blood.

May I suggest a potential problem with this discussion is defining the term ‘saturated fat.’  Fatty acids nomenclature specifies the number of carbon atoms (C8, C10, C12 etc.) and the number of bonds i.e. saturated fats have a single bond, while unsaturated fats (C18:1 for example) consist of at least one double bond.  In 1977 then Senator George McGovern introduced The Dietary Goals for the United States and lumped all saturated fats together as unhealthy.  We’ve learned a few things since then.

In terms of the human body there are two metabolic pathways separated by the length of the carbon chain; thus medium chain fatty acids (C6 - C12) follow one pathway while long chain fatty acids (C13-C21) follow another.  In simple terms long chain fatty acids enter the blood as lipoproteins to transport triglycerides, phospholipids and to facilitate the exchange of cholesterols between the liver and cells.  Medium chain fatty acids do none of that.  They are routed directly to the liver by the portal vein and transported straight to the cells as energy.  The attachment posted previously shows these pathways.

I’m not disputing the possibilities suggested; just that without the specificity of identifying the individual pathways, the interpretation may be suspect.  A paper focused on coconut oil would resolve this issue.

Okay, I am going to pose the same challenge to you that I did to Fathomer on the other thread:  tell me how we can raise money to study this most basic of things.  We get dozens of these kind of issues every week and Big Pharma isn't going to fund this.  So how can we make it happen?

Challenge Accepted - It’s unlikely anyone will fund this in the near future, however…

I’ve been on coconut oil forever (metaphorically).  If I see improvement with L-Arginine, that would lend credence to your supposition.  If I don’t, I may try adding one more supplement with the help of the forum, but if no effect then, I’m probably done.  Keep in mind that I’m reasonably functional now, so it may be that at 67 my expectations are unreasonable.  On the other hand, it’s possible the experiment has been completed.  That is to say if coconut oil is a disaster, shouldn’t I be near non-functional now.

To be perfectly honest – I’m only pursuing this as a test of my circulatory system.  If L-Arginine results in improvement, that suggests an all-out approach may be required for heart health, and coconut oil may have long term negative consequences.  As stated in my first post - as a trained scientific researcher I am never 100% sure about anything.

PeakT

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However, look up the "Cake and Shake" study.  Coconut oil, like all saturated fats, does decrease blood flow.  You will see the coconut fans trying to explain away the study results, but the outcome was clear:  decreased endothelial function.

It's easy to "explain away".

For starters, it was a one day study. It's well known that polyunsaturated fats slow down the metabolic rate. The decrease in body temperature from that then thickens the blood. Coconut oil is thermogenic. Your body temperature and blow flow when you sleep are better when the fatty acids released from your fat stores are saturated. The type of fatty acids released at rest are determined by the type of fat consumed in the long term, not one day.

OK I'm no fan of polyunsaturated
Oils.but it is saturated fat that's sludges and thickens the blood after a meal.   Furthermore man who tend to eat fatty meals eat them three or four times per day. So there arteries are stunned and thickened four hours after that meal. Dr. Vogel did a very interesting brachial artery study on just this fact. So if you eat these kind of high-fat meal all day and do not exercise it is not good  for 40 plus men
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

gmorg

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However, look up the "Cake and Shake" study.  Coconut oil, like all saturated fats, does decrease blood flow.  You will see the coconut fans trying to explain away the study results, but the outcome was clear:  decreased endothelial function.

It's easy to "explain away".

For starters, it was a one day study. It's well known that polyunsaturated fats slow down the metabolic rate. The decrease in body temperature from that then thickens the blood. Coconut oil is thermogenic. Your body temperature and blow flow when you sleep are better when the fatty acids released from your fat stores are saturated. The type of fatty acids released at rest are determined by the type of fat consumed in the long term, not one day.

OK I'm no fan of polyunsaturated
Oils.but it is saturated fat that's sludges and thickens the blood after a meal.   Furthermore man who tend to eat fatty meals eat them three or four times per day. So there arteries are stunned and thickened four hours after that meal. Dr. Vogel did a very interesting brachial artery study on just this fact. So if you eat these kind of high-fat meal all day and do not exercise it is not good  for 40 plus men

Coconut Oil is like the Stock Market – It begins with an initial leap of faith, followed by a continuing evolution before there is a return on investment.  Coconut oil may begin with a saturated verses polyunsaturated mentality.  Saturated fats, especially the medium chain fats, have a Rancidity Factor near zero, while polyunsaturated fats are highly prone to rancidity.  Rancidity = Inflammation, and lowering inflammation is a worthy return on investment.

I challenge anyone consuming coconut oil to ‘eat three or four fatty meals per day.’  My wife and I barely eat three or four meals per day between the two of us.  I’m rarely ever hungry.  Typically we consume 2 meals per day during an 8-10 hour window; one of those is often light.  Eliminating hunger makes it very easy to eat healthy, and as the body adapts to a metabolism with daily fat intake, shifts to eliminate the requirement for stored body fat.  Isn’t there a book – Eat Fat, Get Lean.  More importantly, Coconut oil (discovered by happenchance) evolved into a means of controlling inflammation.   
« Last Edit: January 09, 2016, 02:55:17 pm by gmorg »

Valerian

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I'm using alot of coconut oil for the pat ~2 years (cooking on it every day, every meal). But I'm 29, weight-lifting (not much cardio). Could it really be that my ED is connected to coconut oil??

gmorg

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I'm using alot of coconut oil for the pat ~2 years (cooking on it every day, every meal). But I'm 29, weight-lifting (not much cardio). Could it really be that my ED is connected to coconut oil??

I think the likelihood is no, but there are variations in metabolism.  I would never rule anything out until proven otherwise.

PeakT

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However, look up the "Cake and Shake" study.  Coconut oil, like all saturated fats, does decrease blood flow.  You will see the coconut fans trying to explain away the study results, but the outcome was clear:  decreased endothelial function.

It's easy to "explain away".

For starters, it was a one day study. It's well known that polyunsaturated fats slow down the metabolic rate. The decrease in body temperature from that then thickens the blood. Coconut oil is thermogenic. Your body temperature and blow flow when you sleep are better when the fatty acids released from your fat stores are saturated. The type of fatty acids released at rest are determined by the type of fat consumed in the long term, not one day.

OK I'm no fan of polyunsaturated
Oils.but it is saturated fat that's sludges and thickens the blood after a meal.   Furthermore man who tend to eat fatty meals eat them three or four times per day. So there arteries are stunned and thickened four hours after that meal. Dr. Vogel did a very interesting brachial artery study on just this fact. So if you eat these kind of high-fat meal all day and do not exercise it is not good  for 40 plus men

Coconut Oil is like the Stock Market – It begins with an initial leap of faith, followed by a continuing evolution before there is a return on investment.  Coconut oil may begin with a saturated verses polyunsaturated mentality.  Saturated fats, especially the medium chain fats, have a Rancidity Factor near zero, while polyunsaturated fats are highly prone to rancidity.  Rancidity = Inflammation, and lowering inflammation is a worthy return on investment.

I challenge anyone consuming coconut oil to ‘eat three or four fatty meals per day.’  My wife and I barely eat three or four meals per day between the two of us.  I’m rarely ever hungry.  Typically we consume 2 meals per day during an 8-10 hour window; one of those is often light.  Eliminating hunger makes it very easy to eat healthy, and as the body adapts to a metabolism with daily fat intake, shifts to eliminate the requirement for stored body fat.  Isn’t there a book – Eat Fat, Get Lean.  More importantly, Coconut oil (discovered by happenchance) evolved into a means of controlling inflammation.   

Np.  I'm just bringing up different perspectives.  If you are feeling good, that's great.  I am probably in the minority in here. 
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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