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Author Topic: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C  (Read 7553 times)

fathomer

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what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« on: January 11, 2016, 09:43:44 am »
The easy answer, (cause I wub easy answers without reading a ton of nonsense) is your body is you don't need vit C, you need collagen it is the main structural protein in the extracellular space in the various connective tissues in animal bodies. As the main component of connective tissue, it is the most abundant protein in mammals, making up from 25% to 35% of the whole-body protein content.

you need it for wound healing, skin(so you look good), and blood vessals
the rate limitating factor in collagen production is Vitamin C.,
vitamin C has a half life of  roughly 30 minutes in the body

most animals make vit C all day, every day
Humans can't  via lack of  L-gulonolactone oxidase enzyme
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L-gulonolactone_oxidase


why I believe in Pauling therapy:

That's what it seems like, which is a good question.   The funny part of that question is I never heard of Pauling therapy till I came to this site!

so let's start from the beginning

what  is the pauling theory?

Linus Pauling claimed that specific non-toxic substances called Lp(a) binding inhibitors taken orally will prevent and may even dissolve existing atherosclerotic plaque build-ups.

This work is based on at least 2 Nobel Prizes in Medicine and the efforts of countless medical researchers. The theory and conclusions offered represent the final contribution of an American scientific giant.


Linus Pauling's idea was that we need collagen.  and since 90% of the collagen in type 1 found in a few places including artery walls.   so do arteries get remodeled and need MORE collagen?

Yes, high BP and wear and tear from blood flowing threw them constantly means they need repair. and when then need repair, they need more collagen.

So how is collagen made?
It needs vit C to be made
You need vitamin C for the growth and repair of tissues in all parts of your body. It helps the body make collagen, an important protein used to make skin, cartilage, tendons, ligaments, and blood vessels
https://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/supplement/vitamin-c-ascorbic-acid


high cholestrol leads to damage of the endothelial wall and that's why plaques form
no, this is a silly thought, just look at the basic chemistry of it all 8)
-Bears  dont die from  CAD, yet have cholestrol  300+ during hibernation

Recall when a Bypass heart surgery is done, a leg vein is used to bypass the clogged arteries.   If high cholesterol is the cause of plaque formations,why isnt that leg vein also filled with plaques?
G. C. Willis, MD, made the crucial observation in the early 1950s. A Canadian doctor, he noticed that atherosclerotic plaques in his patients kept forming in the same places. Usually near the heart where the blood vessels are stretched and bent.
Willis was the first to implicate high blood pressures and the mechanical stress caused more wear/tear on arteries, which then need collagen to be repaired.  No collagen, LPA is used, which leads to plaque formation due to LPA  open binding sites on LPA.  Plus LPA isnt stable as collagen


I take 2 grams of vit C, anything beyond that is SUPERMEGADOISNG!
that's silly to think that.
-Unlike animals,.which make lots of vit C in their kidneys all the time, humans don't made vit C.
 Vitamin C does not last long in the body, half life is about 30 minutes
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/linus-pauling-vindicated-researchers-claim-rda-for-vitamin-c-is-flawed-71172707.html
 because vit C is water soluable, so any  you take that isnt used, gets flushed out of the body.  This is the reason for Paulings dose of 10-20 grams/day,  because you don't take 20grams at once! you take a gram of so an hour, but like animals which don't diet from heart attacks, you  always have some vit C in you.

Why do I need vit C in me?
-because the body wants to use collagen to repair arteries,and when it has no collagen or cant make more because it requires vit C to make collagen, the body will use Lipoprotein(a)

what is Lipoprotein(a)?
LDL-like particle and the specific apolipoprotein(a) and it's used by the body to remodel/repair arteries
otherwise, the function is unknown, except people without it are healthy, so it's not needed and seems to be used ascorbic-acid(vit C) surrogate to repair arterial walls
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipoprotein%28a%29



There a few supps we should be taking, yes.
What "more evidence" do you need?
oh ,yeah a study of someone with clogged arteries, who  gets an xray(whatever) shows the 80% blockage then put them on a diet which led to fat loss along with few grams of vit C, some vit K, lysine/proline and then go back later and see if the blockage has diminished?
I think Peak has studies that show that with a low fat diet or whatever .
So that can happen..  I'm just saying the reason it happens isnt because of magic or some unknown key  nutrient in POM juice, but because of the role vit C plays in making Collagen.


I am not one to think about conspiracy theories, but  you do realize how much money is made "lowering cholesterol" or doing heart surgery?
40% or  more of what a hospital makes.
but the idea the AMA/pharma or anyone could have enough control to keep this out of the public knowledge seems a but absurd, right?
then again, it was established that Trans-fats are bad for you 1980s or earlier, and Transfats are still being used.
 FDA will ban them,  except for special uses by 2018

so we know trans fats do many bad things, but it takes almost 40years before the government helps us  avoid them?
hmmm,. so maybe it is possible to hold things back.



I take Livon/lipo C
purebulk vit C and
twin labs vit C
I dont use proline/lysine supps, I just drink eggwhites

foods highest in pro/leu http://nutritiondata.self.com/foods-000083095000000000000-w.html

 read better summary of pauling therapy read:
http://www.internetwks.com/owen/HeartCure.htm

or
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2001/03/28/linus-pauling
« Last Edit: January 14, 2016, 01:43:54 pm by fathomer »
If supplements/herbs worked as well as drugs, they would be drugs.
http://www.westonaprice.org/holistic-healthcare/the-invisible-toothbrush/

why you need collagen
http://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=9002.0

 I have neither the time nor the inclination to check out links to try to figure out what info MIGHT pertain to the verbage that was spewed on a forum and attempt to connect the Posted "ideas" to the content (somewhere) on the link, which afaik has malware/nsfw?
if-you-cant-explain-it-simply-you-dont-understand-it-well-enough
humans don't make AA
AA makes collagen
without collagen, we are forced repair the wear/tear on arteries with LPA(LDL+protein A
LPA is known risk factor for CAD
get vitamin C every few hours vitamin C is water soluable and needed by the body constantly

Avies48

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Re: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2016, 09:41:29 pm »
so are there any nothers who can chime in and show evidence that pauling therapy works? ive been wanting to try this as  a next to last choice before statins....

also what are the best items to get? cost wise i spend enough, id love to be able to afford this stuff and stay married...
38 yrs young!
5'10
195 lbs

trt journey:

cyp, hcg, anastrozole, deca, xandrolone (from time to time)

want to give some gh a try someday, if i can afford it, just to see how it all works together with my trt regimen...

wish i didnt need trt, its sometimes a rollercoaster...

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2016, 09:41:29 pm »


explorer

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Re: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2016, 09:49:00 pm »
so are there any nothers who can chime in and show evidence that pauling therapy works? ive been wanting to try this as  a next to last choice before statins....

also what are the best items to get? cost wise i spend enough, id love to be able to afford this stuff and stay married...

If you take statins...

Quote
Statin induced inhibition in testosterone production was bypassed by providing pregnenolone or progesterone.

Bypassing the site of action with pregnenolone resulted in greater LH stimulated testosterone production than progesterone.

Link

Avies48

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Re: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2016, 10:23:05 pm »
so are there any nothers who can chime in and show evidence that pauling therapy works? ive been wanting to try this as  a next to last choice before statins....

also what are the best items to get? cost wise i spend enough, id love to be able to afford this stuff and stay married...

If you take statins...

Quote
Statin induced inhibition in testosterone production was bypassed by providing pregnenolone or progesterone.

Bypassing the site of action with pregnenolone resulted in greater LH stimulated testosterone production than progesterone.

Link


what do u mean if u take statins?

and yeah i need to get back on my preg....
38 yrs young!
5'10
195 lbs

trt journey:

cyp, hcg, anastrozole, deca, xandrolone (from time to time)

want to give some gh a try someday, if i can afford it, just to see how it all works together with my trt regimen...

wish i didnt need trt, its sometimes a rollercoaster...

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2016, 10:23:05 pm »


PeakT

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Re: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2016, 02:51:37 am »
so are there any nothers who can chime in and show evidence that pauling therapy works? ive been wanting to try this as  a next to last choice before statins....

also what are the best items to get? cost wise i spend enough, id love to be able to afford this stuff and stay married...

If you take statins...

Quote
Statin induced inhibition in testosterone production was bypassed by providing pregnenolone or progesterone.

Bypassing the site of action with pregnenolone resulted in greater LH stimulated testosterone production than progesterone.

Link


Interesting find explorer!
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

xrayguy

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Re: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2016, 05:01:47 pm »
I thought this was a really good video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0LLX0sgwAU

Starting recommendation is 30mg/kg/day of vitamin C.
Age 48, 5'10" 185lbs, from Canada

Symptoms: Anxiety, abdominal bloating/cramps/tenderness, fatigue, weakness, insomnia.

Rx treatment:
10/21/2015: NOTHING
10/15/2015: 120mg Testosterone cream
9/11/2015: 100mg Testosterone cream, 10/5/2.5mg Cortef
8/1/2015: 100mg Testosterone cream
7/23/2015: 100mg Testosterone cream, 15mg Thyroid
6/30/2015: 100mg Testosterone Cypionate/week, 0.5mg Arimidex 2x/week

Recent Tests March 2016:
T 234 ng/dl (297-850)
E2 19 pg/ml (<54)
SHBG 0.23 (0.20-1.00)
DHEAS 11.8 umol/L (<14.0)
TSH 4.63 mU/L (0.2-4.0)
Free T3: 6.2 pmol/L (3.5-6.5)
Free T4: 16.2 pmol/L (9.0-23.0)
Cortisol AM 279 nmol/L (120-620)
Cortisol PM 166 nmol/L (85-460)

Previous Tests:
T (300-1100ng/dl): 579>507>182>300>369>234
E2 (<54pg/ml): 72>59>43>28>25>19

Joe Sixpack

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Re: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2016, 12:48:59 am »
So I have been upping my vit C lately.  I'm taking 1 Gram buffered C in the morning.  I tolerate this just fine.

Later in the day I dissolve 250 MG in some water and take that.  Problem is that dose gives loose bowels.  It doesn't matter what time of day I take this.  Doesn't matter if I take it with food or without.  It makes my bowels move.  The buffered stuff doesn't.  But from what I have read you don't want to take the buffered to protect against CVD. 

@Fathomer, does loose bowels mean I already have enough C? or do I need to titrate up to higher doeses?  Did you have any issues with this when first started?
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

PeakT

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Re: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2016, 03:38:27 am »
So I have been upping my vit C lately.  I'm taking 1 Gram buffered C in the morning.  I tolerate this just fine.

Later in the day I dissolve 250 MG in some water and take that.  Problem is that dose gives loose bowels.  It doesn't matter what time of day I take this.  Doesn't matter if I take it with food or without.  It makes my bowels move.  The buffered stuff doesn't.  But from what I have read you don't want to take the buffered to protect against CVD. 

@Fathomer, does loose bowels mean I already have enough C? or do I need to titrate up to higher doeses?  Did you have any issues with this when first started?

Ive never read anything recent that says buffered is bad and many that have said it was good actually. 
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Joe Sixpack

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Re: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2016, 04:15:17 am »
So I have been upping my vit C lately.  I'm taking 1 Gram buffered C in the morning.  I tolerate this just fine.

Later in the day I dissolve 250 MG in some water and take that.  Problem is that dose gives loose bowels.  It doesn't matter what time of day I take this.  Doesn't matter if I take it with food or without.  It makes my bowels move.  The buffered stuff doesn't.  But from what I have read you don't want to take the buffered to protect against CVD. 

@Fathomer, does loose bowels mean I already have enough C? or do I need to titrate up to higher doeses?  Did you have any issues with this when first started?

Ive never read anything recent that says buffered is bad and many that have said it was good actually.

Not that buffered is bad per-se.  I  read on some of the sites that fathomer linked, that the preferred form of C for Pauling therapy purposes in NOT the buffered kind.  Pauling therapy wants you to use plain ascorbic acid. 
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

PeakT

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Re: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2016, 04:37:15 am »
So I have been upping my vit C lately.  I'm taking 1 Gram buffered C in the morning.  I tolerate this just fine.

Later in the day I dissolve 250 MG in some water and take that.  Problem is that dose gives loose bowels.  It doesn't matter what time of day I take this.  Doesn't matter if I take it with food or without.  It makes my bowels move.  The buffered stuff doesn't.  But from what I have read you don't want to take the buffered to protect against CVD. 

@Fathomer, does loose bowels mean I already have enough C? or do I need to titrate up to higher doeses?  Did you have any issues with this when first started?

Ive never read anything recent that says buffered is bad and many that have said it was good actually.

Not that buffered is bad per-se.  I  read on some of the sites that fathomer linked, that the preferred form of C for Pauling therapy purposes in NOT the buffered kind.  Pauling therapy wants you to use plain ascorbic acid.

I believe you will find that those sources are very old.  When I first read about Vitamin C 15 years ago, they were echoing what you talked about:  ascorbic acid is the "natural, pure" form, etc.  However, virtually every author I have read since then insists that the buffered form is better.

THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Joe Sixpack

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Re: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 01:29:09 am »

I believe you will find that those sources are very old.  When I first read about Vitamin C 15 years ago, they were echoing what you talked about:  ascorbic acid is the "natural, pure" form, etc.  However, virtually every author I have read since then insists that the buffered form is better.

I agree that the recent writers seem to like buffered better.  My experience with loose bowels may be the reason why too.  I can tolerate buffered but not the un-buffered.
Age: 55, Ht: 5'08", Wt: 155 lbs
Protocol: 25 mg T Cyp + 25 IU HCG M,W,F + 2 clicks T Cream + 15mg DHEA + 15mg Pregnenalone daily.
12/2018 test results: TT: 1054 ng/dL (264-916), FT: 17.2 pg/mL (7.2-24), E2: 21.6 pg/mL sensitive (8.0-35.0)

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: what is Pauling therapy and why do you need vit C
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 01:29:09 am »