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Author Topic: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week  (Read 22726 times)

feelgood

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RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« on: January 14, 2013, 04:20:23 pm »
Hi guys - Would appreciate thoughts on my bloods. From Dec 2-Jan 2, i took 1,500 IU HCG mono 3X a week. Had my blood drawn Jan 2. Then i went down to 500 IU 3X a week, through today. I had been on clomid prior, which raised my T from around 220/250 to around low 500s. But my free T never got above "low/out of range."

went to my urologist today and here are the results, as it reads on the printout he gave me:

Total testosterone: 874 ng/dl (300-1000)
Free testosterone: 1.32 ng/dL (0.95-4.30)
SHBG: 32 nmol/L (10-50)
Estradiol: 74.4 pg/ml (20.0-75.0)

So, nice bump on the overall T. Wish the free T would pop up more, but that seems to be a stubborn thing for me. The thing that will probably jump out to most of you is the estrodial. After reading on here and elsewhere, it seems so high. The doctor glossed over it/wasn't concerned at all. I asked whether this is the "sensitive assay" test and he didn't really answer or seem to know. I asked about arimidex, and he says he doesn't like to prescribe it, as it can really lower bone density in his opinion, and he said in my case, he wouldn't prescribe it, as on my initial visit back in March, i came in a bit low on bone density.

So, what are your thoughts? Any ideas on lowering that somehow another way? I told him i lowered my HCG dose to 500 IU 3X a week, and he thought it was fine, but that i might be "under dosing" myself at that amount. He didn't buy off on any "leydig cell densensitization" argument.  I will go back in, in 2 months to see my bloods on that new protocol. Perhaps i'll have to lose some points on overall T in order to have that estrodial maybe come down a bit.

Ok, now the more important part - how do i feel. Overall, i guess i feel pretty great. No real depression, no anxiety really, no nipple sensitivity or anything that would suggest too high an estrodial count. Erection quality decent, not a ton of morning wood, libido is ok, hit or miss i guess. I think i feel a bit better now, than when on clomid.

So, that's it. He's done well by me, fixing my varicocele via surgery and thereby helping my fertility chances (we're trying to have a baby) and getting my overall T up by being proactive on things like clomid and HCG. Just sort of wondering if he's right in blowing off the estrodial thing (he did ask me if i had the normal symptoms like man boobs, etc and i said "no"). But at the end of the day, he knows more than me, obviously. And i need to concentrate on the fact that overall i do feel good. I just feel like my erections/libido could be better. Who knows.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 04:35:24 pm by starry »

feelgood

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Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2013, 06:39:03 pm »
good timing as i just noticed Peak put a blog post up on this topic on the main site. Bad part: none of them sound promising. The DIM stuff does, but maybe i should wait 2 months before i do anything and see how my estrodial does on this dropped dosage (500IU 3 x week).

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2013, 06:39:03 pm »


PeakT

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Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2013, 06:56:59 pm »
If you feel good, that's great.  But I have to post this for some discussion points with your doctor once again:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2010/may2010_Why-Estrogen-Balance-is-Critical-to-Aging-Men_01.htm

"Of concern to us 14 years ago were reports showing that excess estrogen contributes to the development of atherosclerosis.8,9 Human clinical studies conducted more than a decade later confirmed our suspicions. Men with even slightly elevated estrogen levels doubled their risk of stroke and had far higher incidences of coronary artery disease.10-12 Our early observations also revealed that men presenting with benign prostate enlargement or prostate cancer had higher blood estrogen levels (and often low free testosterone blood levels).13-16"

Now, admittedly, these studies were not on men on HRT or HCG therapy.  But I just can't imagine anyone arguing that high estrdiol levels are going to be good for you.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

feelgood

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Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2013, 03:29:26 pm »
thanks Peak...yes i'm going to have this as a print out - at least i think.

I mean, it's a little frustrating. I've asked about this, really have not gotten a sufficient answer, so unsure of what do next. I mean, i sort of hate walking in there with a print out, calling him out as being "out of touch." it's a delicate thing. He's a fairly nice guy, and i do ask a lot of questions, and i wonder what he thinks. I'm always saying "well i read this, or that...." and i wonder if he's just thinking in his head  "oh great, another internet guy getting overloaded with information, etc etc"

I think i'm not going to do really any harder core e2 inhibitor trys, as i want to see if lowering my HCG dose helps, while not sliding me back into the 400s or whatever. For once, i think i want to be disciplined and try one approach at a time to see what is effective and what is not.

At least for now, i don't have really weird symptoms. I get the sense the e2 might be holding me back on morning wood, nocturnals, etc but SO FAR any way it doesn't seem to be crippling me. So i'll hold out for 2 months i guess.

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #3 on: January 15, 2013, 03:29:26 pm »


PeakT

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Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2013, 04:27:54 pm »
thanks Peak...yes i'm going to have this as a print out - at least i think.

I mean, it's a little frustrating. I've asked about this, really have not gotten a sufficient answer, so unsure of what do next. I mean, i sort of hate walking in there with a print out, calling him out as being "out of touch." it's a delicate thing. He's a fairly nice guy, and i do ask a lot of questions, and i wonder what he thinks. I'm always saying "well i read this, or that...." and i wonder if he's just thinking in his head  "oh great, another internet guy getting overloaded with information, etc etc"

I think i'm not going to do really any harder core e2 inhibitor trys, as i want to see if lowering my HCG dose helps, while not sliding me back into the 400s or whatever. For once, i think i want to be disciplined and try one approach at a time to see what is effective and what is not.

At least for now, i don't have really weird symptoms. I get the sense the e2 might be holding me back on morning wood, nocturnals, etc but SO FAR any way it doesn't seem to be crippling me. So i'll hold out for 2 months i guess.

Did you read PRSArtists' and anonymous' commentary on what estradiol control did for them?  It was the final ingredient that made all the difference in the world.  What I'm getting at is that I suspect your doctor just hasn't tried E2 control and so doesn't know what a big impact it can have for some men.
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

JackAndy

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Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2013, 12:06:51 pm »
HCG really causes more E2 than injecting oils for the same serum levels. I can't imagine taking HCG at those doses without it. Your doctor's concern in the decrease if bone density is reasonable, but too much estrogen will also cause a decrease in bone density (in a different area) because then testosterone will drop too low. There is a balance which is important.
Age:29
5'11" 190 lbs
150mg Test-E/week

feelgood

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Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2013, 03:53:18 pm »
thanks for the comments...and i still don't get my lab's (Quest) ranges for e2 (the 20.0-75.0 pg/ml). It's so different than all the others i see on here or other boards. It makes it hard to put it in context for me.

either way, i feel like i should get a second opinion from another doctor on the e2. He is simply saying it's not a big deal, and so many of his patients have it really much higher.... My searches are coming up empty though for another doc. I know if i go to a run of the mill uro or endo, they won't get it. So it's hard to find another "men's health" specific place around here.

Prsartist

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Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2013, 04:16:56 pm »
OMG,  this post scares the crap outta me!
E2 of 78 should not be passed over!

Everyone is different, but I could NOT get an erection with
My E2 levels above 30!  I had struggled with this for the past 6 months, and I'm on a pretty high
Dose of arimidex .75mg EOD.

If your noticing lack of morning wood, and your continuing the same
Treatment dose and schedule?  That # will only get higher.  Sooner or later your lack of morning wood
Could turn into "lack of ANY wood"! 
Even my Dr. Would treat an E2 level of 78!  This really isn't OK to be that high!

And it's not just erections as peak posted above,  there are ALOT of other problems
Associated with high E2,  and none of them you really want to deal with!

Good grief,  it still upsets me to this day that Dr's still do this!!!

Prsartist

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Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2013, 04:37:07 pm »
thanks Peak...yes i'm going to have this as a print out - at least i think.

I mean, it's a little frustrating. I've asked about this, really have not gotten a sufficient answer, so unsure of what do next. I mean, i sort of hate walking in there with a print out, calling him out as being "out of touch." it's a delicate thing. He's a fairly nice guy, and i do ask a lot of questions, and i wonder what he thinks. I'm always saying "well i read this, or that...." and i wonder if he's just thinking in his head  "oh great, another internet guy getting overloaded with information, etc etc"

I think i'm not going to do really any harder core e2 inhibitor trys, as i want to see if lowering my HCG dose helps, while not sliding me back into the 400s or whatever. For once, i think i want to be disciplined and try one approach at a time to see what is effective and what is not.

At least for now, i don't have really weird symptoms. I get the sense the e2 might be holding me back on morning wood, nocturnals, etc but SO FAR any way it doesn't seem to be crippling me. So i'll hold out for 2 months i guess.

Nice guy or not, the important thing to remember is he works for you!  You do not work for him!
There are very few Dr's with any knowledge or expierence with TRT, so finding a more knowledgeable
Dr certainly won't be an easy task!
It wasn't easy to convince my Dr that 30 was
Not a good # for me!!  But I basically told him that I know
What I'm talking about, (thanks to peak & this forum) you need to help me!
If I can hit an E2 of 22 and things arent ALOT better, then I would buy lunch
For his entire office!
Guess what???  I won't be buying lunch! After a few days on the higher dose
I already notice a world of difference!!!
« Last Edit: January 16, 2013, 04:40:05 pm by Prsartist »

feelgood

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Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2013, 04:47:41 pm »
OMG,  this post scares the crap outta me!
E2 of 78 should not be passed over!

Everyone is different, but I could NOT get an erection with
My E2 levels above 30!  I had struggled with this for the past 6 months, and I'm on a pretty high
Dose of arimidex .75mg EOD.

If your noticing lack of morning wood, and your continuing the same
Treatment dose and schedule?  That # will only get higher.  Sooner or later your lack of morning wood
Could turn into "lack of ANY wood"! 
Even my Dr. Would treat an E2 level of 78!  This really isn't OK to be that high!

And it's not just erections as peak posted above,  there are ALOT of other problems
Associated with high E2,  and none of them you really want to deal with!

Good grief,  it still upsets me to this day that Dr's still do this!!!

i have dropped from 1500 IU 3x week to 500IU 3x a week of HCG mono. Will get tested again in march. I imagine this will bring my 874 TT level down some, but also the e2 as well. We'll see. I'm not going to press him too hard on the arimidex just yet. Honestly? i would really rather not add another medication to things if i don't have to. Obviously if i lose all erection capacity my thought would probably change on that, but so far that has not really happened.


Prsartist

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Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2013, 05:24:19 pm »
Yes total ED will change your opinion of the "nice guy" Dr.!
The important thing to remember is to change 1 thing att a time so you know how your body reacts.
HCG will raise E2 levels along with T levels. (I take it too)
Be sure to get checked as much as possible

feelgood

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Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2013, 06:16:02 pm »
yeah, when i left him and went back to the front desk, the receptionist said "ok so we will see you in march." I had thought i would come back a little sooner than that.

Yes, i was hoping to finally try "one thing at a time"  but now i'm sort of panicking, and i'm not sure i'll be able resist at least trying DIM. But then i won't know if it was the lowered HCG dose or the DIM that helps e2 (if i'm helped at all)...

hmmm...what would you do?

And what protocol are you on? are you on HCG mono?

Prsartist

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Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2013, 09:13:38 pm »
I'm only on 200 iu 2x a week, so I  really can't say what I would do.
I know that HCG doesnt help your E2 levels!
Dropping from 1500 to 500 will help lower it, but I doubt it will drop
You into the 20's where you need to be.

What is "DIM" ??

PeakT

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THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

Prsartist

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Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 11:32:25 pm »
Well, that does seem awfully. Complicated & time consuming!
I suppose if you've got the time and drive to expirement and monitor
Your intake that may help you out??

Seems like too much guesswork for me....

Peak Testosterone Forum

Re: RESULTS of my first month on HCG mono at 1,500 IU 3x week
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 11:32:25 pm »