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Author Topic: Oxygen?  (Read 13820 times)

MrChickenkiev

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Oxygen?
« on: January 15, 2012, 08:35:06 pm »
I haven't done a proper academic study to back up my hunches here, but then we are not paid researchers or even qualified to make pronouncements on causes and cures, but again if we can't speculate on a forum where can we?

Forum users who have read my posts will have noted that I have a total aversion to mainstream medical interventions which I suspect are merely treating symptoms. I have so far stubbornly refused to get involved with T shots and Viagra, despite my issues dragging out over five years. Apart from anything else these treatments, for me shroud the real causes with an air of mystery. You take the treatment and you get better, and in between times you are just supposed to blithely accept that "these things happen". The more I read of healthy young men suffering from this problem before their time, the less I am inclined to believe that there are exotic causes. I mean if I was the only one, then I could accept it was genetic or related to my ectomorphic build, but when I read of strapping 6ft 2in hockey players with the same problem, I tend to think there may be more mundane factors creating this underground epidemic.

OK, without wishing to keep you in suspense, I will cut to the chase. Unfortunately again I think this is only a situation that younger sufferers will gain any succour from. I think there is a possibility that a high percentage of erectile and libido problems are as a result of starving the body and it's tissues of oxygen, whether that be testosterone molecules or epithelial membranes allowing the flow of blood into the penis. If you look at a series of the main culprits identified for ED, there always seems to be an oxygen deficit created, whether by smoking or struggling for air through sleep apnea from obesity or snoring. OK, that doesn't create a link necessarily to stress, other than sleep disturbance- or night shift work per se, so there may be other pathways.  No doubt anything that disturbs the biochemical synthesis of testosterone or nitric oxide among others. But isn't it curious that some of the remedies or symptom attenuating therapies at least in part oxygenate the blood? For example exercise clearly oxygenates the blood, and as indicated on the Peak Testosterone site increases levels of nitric oxide required for erections.

The first time I read of this oxygen deficit theory was in a British national paper the Daily Mail Health section where they specifically described how sleep apnea/snoring choked the body of oxygen during the night and thus starved the body of the oxygen it needed to manufacture testosterone. I don't have the link here, but I can see that there are plenty of sites that describe a similar pathology.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/dr-michael-j-breus/erectile-dysfunction-sleep-apnea_b_875987.html

OSA is Obstructive Sleep Apnea, and....

"Men with erectile dysfunction were more than twice as likely to have OSA than those without erectile dysfunction"

and " is characterized by repeated stops and starts of breathing during sleep when throat muscles relax and block the airway".

 "The link between OSA and obesity is pretty well established. Perhaps now there's another reason for men to try to maintain a healthy weight -- erectile function".

And the actual mechanism....

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/sleep/articles/2008/09/12/sleep-apnea-may-cause-erectile-dysfunction

"University of Louisville researchers found that, in a study of mice, one week of chronic intermittent hypoxia (CIH) -- the lack of oxygen suffered during obstructive sleep apnea syndrome (OSAS) -- resulted in a 55 percent decline in their daily spontaneous erections."

"The findings, published in the second September issue of the American Journal of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine, showed that when the mice went back on standard oxygen levels for six weeks, they recovered 74 percent of their original erectile function".

OK that was mice but they reckon similar follows for human men.

Similarly I would presume that nitric oxide and it's precursors are theoretically effective because they rectify the oxygen starvation. I'm presuming without actually having any proof that nitric oxide and oxygen levels are inextricably linked.

"A second treatment using tadalafil, which is generic Cialis and increases the availability of nitric oxide, improved erectile and sexual functioning of almost all the mice to near-normal levels."

I note this study did not find reduced t- levels, but I did read that oxygen levels effected testosterone in the Daily Mail article- sorry I can't reproduce it here for your approval.

So here are a few other articles on line which discuss the link between ED, testosterone and oxygen- and as ever I am not sponsoring the links- but wonder do they have any merit?

http://www.majidali.com/low_testosterone_in_men_alternative_treatments.htm

You'll notice that this article ties together some of the other elements I have discussed so far in other postings, such as stress, adrenal fatigue, t levels and oxygen- which gives it some tentative validity to me personally.

I spotted this link about the effect of this deprivation on circadian rhythms and testosterone levels, which may have some bearing on the night shift worker who is also disrupting their natural ciradian rhythms by working through the night.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/2099569/

Anyway, a couple of other things caught my attention, which may or may not be relevant. I spied a young guy on a body building site who felt that increasing his levels of nitric oxide had also made him hornier- I'm speculating, but if true, was that the result of increasing his t levels by increasing the oxygen available to make more testosterone molecules?

But the clincher for me, was reading that doctors are using hyperbaric (oxygenating) treatments for ED with some success

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/55835.php

And this whole section needs to be highlighted....

" Periodic tissue oxygenation of penile tissues occurs with nightly erections. One theory is that nocturnal penile tumescence serves the purpose of keeping the normal penis healthy by periodically increased oxygen tensions in the penile vascular bed."

Mostly the hyperbaric treatment has been used for men recovering from prostate surgery, but Google has plenty of links to it "Hyperbaric Erectile Dysfunction"

http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy-ab&fhp=1&hl=en&safe=off&source=hp&q=hyperbaric%20erectile%20dysfunction&pbx=1&oq=hyperbaric%20erectile%20dy&aq=0w&aqi=q-w1&aql=&gs_sm=sc&gs_upl=4546l21451l0l22873l28l22l1l3l3l0l540l4650l0.10.9.1.0.1l26l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=4c26890357e371b1&biw=1366&bih=667&pf=p&pdl=300

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18194179

"Cavernosal oxygenation appears to be important for preservation of erectile tissue health. Hyperbaric oxygen therapy (HBOT) has been shown to improve tissue oxygenation and has neuromodulatory effects"

Again, I don't have the link, but an increase of fat round the gullet (throat), seems to be the reason why some men fall into the OSA camp. Being overly tired or drunk from alcohol increases snoring activity, presumably both are cases were the body is desperately trying to oxygenate itself having been abused during the waking day?

I wonder too whether anti-oxidants which are primarily concerned with preventing oxygen molecules from being split into single atoms due to free radical damage, are also therefore allies in the defence of oxygen preservation in the body?

As ever keen to know whether this chimes with anyone or they can add to my understanding.



 

PeakT

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 11:32:14 pm »
Yes, and this is one of the big dangers of the "overmasturbation sites".  These sites prey on men who already feel demoralized due to erectile dysfunction.  Yes, I suppose it's possible to overdo things - you've brought up some interesting points on this subject - but many men can likely hurt their erectile strength greatly by avoiding erections.

There are indications that erections can be curative for men, especially those who do not have reliable morning erections, and it is likely this oxygenation issue that you are talking about or something similar. 
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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #1 on: January 15, 2012, 11:32:14 pm »


MrChickenkiev

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2012, 02:27:34 pm »
Thanks PeakT. I hope you would agree that none of these "oxygen" links were anti erection, though you are right to point out that some of the previous links I posted reference "sexual exhaustion" seemed to have an uncomfortable hidden agenda intent on guilt tripping men over porn and masturbation.

Again I think it might be helpful to draw a distinction between ED pathologies, and types of self stimulation. If you are supposedly suffering from ED because you have exhausted your "sexual" capacity at a relatively young age, further ejaculation potentially diminishes zinc, choline and other nutrients, which are required for sexual potency. That is even if sexual exhaustion is a genuine cause of ED. Of course the antidote to that may be eating choline and zinc rich foods as well as supplementation. If on the other hand you are working on the basis if you don't use it, you lose it, reference androgenic receptors, then there is almost a duty for you to ejaculate regularly. I would have thought though deliberately achieving erections regularly might be a happy medium, whereby you retain your juice as it were but continue to ensure everything is in working order. Again I wonder whether we should draw some distinctions between younger and older men, where younger sufferers' androgen receptors are likely to still be relatively unscathed?

I remember when I was younger about 19 years old and devoutly Christian, following a supposedly strict non masturbation regime. For the record I am not religious any more. Unfortunately I was so horny I couldn't help myself, and the longest I ever lasted was 2 weeks. When I did ejaculate the semen had become congealed and was almost quite difficult and uncomfortable to eject. From that point of view I have always assumed you can't go too long without ejaculating, so from personal experience I certainly wouldn't advocate holding back for too long. Unless you are going to be a real zealot, your own panic will set in compelling you to "let go".

Again I go back to those happy days when erections happened spontaneously on a regular basis as I day dreamed about sex or saw an attractive woman. In those days there wasn't a question of deliberately thinking about sex- because I would have been distracted regularly by sexual thoughts and it was such an integral part of my personality and energies that sex or masturbation ensued. Clearly I want some of that exuberance back.

That is why I return to the idea of general exhaustion, because for me it is not a simple question of the hydraulics of my penis, I have been generally lacking in motivation and energy. For example I don't think I could do heavy or repetitive physical tasks for employment at the moment. When I referenced the "sexual exhaustion" sites I wasn't suggesting that my condition was as a result of over indulgence in masturbation or porn, but that I could see general points of comparison with someone who was just emotionally and physically drained of energy. It looked to me as though I could also have compromised through stress the para sympathetic pathways, that rely on acetylcholine and dopamine to potentially power my libido and erections.

Rather than just go from one potential cause to the other, I think there might be mileage in incorporating all the research I have done so far, for certain types of ED and libido problems, and suggest that you can have both adrenal fatigue, neurotransmitter depletion and a poorly oxygenated body- if not all at once, at least at different stages, in combination or in isolation. Therefore it just goes back to the general point of rest and recuperation and maintaining a general level of decent nutrition and fitness.

But I do think it is curious that there are now so many (sometimes bizarre) therapies that seem to require an oxygenation element, and that these appear to be at least partly successful. I know there are men out there whose plumbing has effectively seized up, and that smoking can fur the penile arteries, making it difficult to pump blood through for erections. But I am now also reading how smoking causes problems with oxygenating the blood, and therefore potentially compromises nitric oxide production.

 I don't for one minute diminish the anxiety older men are feeling about their ED and libido problems, but I do think that there are often different reasons for those issues from the problems I read reference younger posters. You mention the anxiety that all men feel about losing their mojo, but I get the impression for some younger sufferers there is a general malaise about their health and psychological outlook making their existing anxious state worse- once the ED sets in. I mean all I needed on top of my brain surgery and the threat to my job was the fact that I was limp downstairs. Even I feel more sympathy for posters as young as 19 and 25 years of age to this site than myself, because at least I had many years of vibrant sexual health before I succumbed. Hopefully for all of us (including men older than me) the problems are reversible, and the younger the sufferer the more likely they are to have the time and energy to overcome their difficulties.

I remember when I was in a bar in my mid thirties talking to a man who was in his late eighties. He was asking us, his young friends to lie to this women in her thirties about his age so that he could date her! He thought if we told her he was in his sixties she would think that was a more acceptable age gap. I recall thinking, hell, am I going to have unquenchable lust until I am in my eighties?  I thought if I am going to be alone in my pensionable years, I am going to be very sexually frustrated. For me this was a case of being careful what you wish for. The guy in question was a widower, and paid for a mature lady to come round and pleasure him at the weekend. So you can imagine what a freak of nature I thought I was when I first discovered I had problems with ED at 37. The encouraging thing I see here is that older men than me, sometimes 30 to 40 years older, are still intent and capable of being sexually active, and if they don't give up, then unless I am a genetic freak, then neither should I.

RIP Herbie.


 

PeakT

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 04:10:50 am »
Wow!  That's quite the story about the 80 year old.  Some things never change, eh?

Your posts always have many great ideas.  But I have a question for you:  have you tried methodically trying one thing at a time for a few weeks and actually trying to monitor the effect?  I am wondering if you have so many options to try that perhaps it has gotten in the way of your doing some actual testing on what seems to work for you? 

I'm mentioning it, because I have the idea you tend to try things for a few days based on a couple of the things you wrote. But really most things require a few weeks.  Anyway, if that's off base, just ignore...
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2012, 04:10:50 am »


santamonica88

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #4 on: January 18, 2012, 12:16:38 am »
To Peak T:
When you mention sites re: overmasturbation, are you referring to one like yourbrainonporn.com
I've read through this site and it is highly interesting to say the least
Would love for you to be more specific regarding this issue

MrChickenkiev

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #5 on: January 18, 2012, 11:58:27 am »
@santamonica88: I know I was certainly referring in part to mybrainonporn on another posting I made https://www.peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=69.0 Like you say their findings are very interesting, and I certainly wouldn't disagree with the logic of their findings, until I receive evidence to the contrary. It does seem to offer an alternative view to ED and potential treatment particularly for young men, which seems attractive since I am not aware of other treatments being successful for this age group. I am sure it is entirely possible for some men to be addicted to the volume and availability of porn out there, but the brainonporn site does not indicate what a reasonable amount of usage is, it just advocates total abstinence seemingly for all men. To me that is like banning alcohol or gambling, which does blight some susceptible people's lives, but for the majority of users poses no problems if they are able to assert a moderate degree of self control.

As for my own treatment regime, I would agree that it is entirely possible that the supplement programme that does eventually cure the problem, may take months to work it's magic. The problem is that I have tried a number of approaches over a period of months which did fail and therefore I have to have some means of ascertaining the success of supplements on a shorter time-scale, otherwise I could drag out the final successful outcome to several additional years. On the other side of the coin I have been doing acupuncture for 5 years nearly, so I can stick to a regimen if I think it is doing me good. The 5 years however can only be justified on the grounds, that it helped me with what I would have described as post traumatic stress, which I now suspect was at least exacerbated by a stress induced depletion of vitamins, minerals and neurotransmitters- if indeed that was not entirely the cause of my ongoing anxiety from the outset.

Some products I have had fairly immediate adverse reactions to, such as pycnogenol, and whilst I would like to continue with them because I think they will ultimately be successful, I have to work out a way of ingesting them, without the side effects (for me, mild nausea, reduction in appetite, sensation like my head was swollen with blood, etc). I also had adverse reactions to magnesium supplementation, which gave me stomach upsets. I however found that you could get a mineral spray with an equivalent dosage which allowed it to be absorbed sub cutaneously and which had no side effects. So I wonder therefore whether there is a means of incorporating pycnogenol without feeling ill? Again it could even be the case if the supplement makes you feel worse there is a chance that you didn't need it, in the first place.

PeakT

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #6 on: January 20, 2012, 04:56:10 pm »
To Peak T:
When you mention sites re: overmasturbation, are you referring to one like yourbrainonporn.com
I've read through this site and it is highly interesting to say the least
Would love for you to be more specific regarding this issue

Haven't read that site although a couple of guys have mentioned it..  Right now I'm interested in the subject of "dopamine depletion" and am looking into that quite a bit.  Don't know if that's related. 
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
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And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

PeakT

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #7 on: January 20, 2012, 04:58:52 pm »

Some products I have had fairly immediate adverse reactions to, such as pycnogenol, and whilst I would like to continue with them because I think they will ultimately be successful, I have to work out a way of ingesting them, without the side effects (for me, mild nausea, reduction in appetite, sensation like my head was swollen with blood, etc). I also had adverse reactions to magnesium supplementation, which gave me stomach upsets. I however found that you could get a mineral spray with an equivalent dosage which allowed it to be absorbed sub cutaneously and which had no side effects. So I wonder therefore whether there is a means of incorporating pycnogenol without feeling ill? Again it could even be the case if the supplement makes you feel worse there is a chance that you didn't need it, in the first place.

Probably the best thing would be to contact the company directly.  This page has contact information including an email address:

http://www.pycnogenol.us/consumer/consumer_contact.php

THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

santamonica88

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #8 on: January 21, 2012, 06:05:00 pm »
re: yourbraininporn.com
no, it's not about dopamine depletion, it's about depletion of dopamine receptors, very interesting information with some anecdotal stories to indicate that stopping the overstimulation from internet porn leads to repair in receptors, very much worth your time to investigate
thanks

MrChickenkiev

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #9 on: January 21, 2012, 10:15:17 pm »
@santamonica: I reference the mybrainonporn site in some detail in one of my other postings "Losing my mojo at 37 an alternative theory with stress still the main culprit".  I also talk about perhaps using P-serine as a supplement to repair receptors, and PeakT and I then discussed a potential association between P-serine and cancer. I think the mybrainonporn site is particularly good at suggesting some ideas with reference to waking erections and the part played by acetylcholine and the spine as well as the link between dopamine and desire and therefore libido. The more common fact that men who have problems with back pain and erectile dysfunction struck me as bearing potentially some relation to how the brain communicates with the testes down the spine, as suggested by mybrainonporn. Therefore any inflammation from back pain which prevents that signal reaching it's destination, could be a potential cause of ED.

Theoretically at least this could also explain why some men can have nocturnal but not waking erections, since one relies on spinal communication and the other on the HPT axis. Of course the other dimension could be between a waking psychological barrier to maintaining an erection, whether through performance anxiety or some mental obstacle, and the bodies own nocturnal autonomic systems which function largely without psychological input. Recent research suggests that psychological barriers have been overemphasized in the past, and may make up as little as 15% (don't have the reference to hand- but can get it if required) of the total sufferers of ED.

http://www.urologyinstitute.com/html/erectile_dysfunction.html

"As a result of the intense study of impotence and the technologic advances of the last 20 years, we can better define impotence.  We know that the majority of impotence cases have a physical cause and are not psychological".

 I am sure psychological impotence does happen, but more often than not it makes logical sense to me that guys who have been happily making love to their partners for decades, are potentially less likely to suffer from performance anxiety, than even younger guys. Psychological explanations can also attempt to share the blame with the man's supposedly demanding partner. Such an interpretation could cause unnecessary strife in a couples relationship and would seem particularly misplaced if in fact the causes were physical all along.

Besides psychological explanations for ED are fraught with difficulty. Almost any current behaviour can be tenuously associated with some event in the past. I tend to think that doctors might use that explanation when they cannot identify the true cause for a variety of illnesses- it is a kind of lazy catch all. It puts the pressure unjustly back on some patients, who have to search the depths of their soul to find the source of some anxiety. This is then elevated to central importance when it only exerts a trivial impedance on their behaviour. And even when there is not an obvious relationship, psychotherapists can manufacture one. Think of all the psychiatrists who implanted false child abuse histories into their patients.

I know this or similar lazy diagnoses do happen. Some time ago a colleague of mine who was born with an appendix on the wrong side of his body, asked for a diagnosis from his doctor for an excruciating pain he was suffering from in his side. Since the doctors couldn't rationalise why my colleague might be in pain on the wrong side of his body, they suggested he was feigning the illness to avoid doing school exams. I can't recall how they eventually established the truth, but my colleague had by that time had a burst appendix. I know on those occasions doctors have an impossible job in diagnosing something that defies medical logic, but it just shows what their default position can be, when the unexpected occurs.

Back to the Mybrainonporn site. In my case, porn certainly wasn't a defining reason for burn out, as I only had access to pornographic material once a week back in 2005, when my problems began. And one of the side effects of having a poorer libido these days is that I don't seek porn out to the degree I used to- and with a poorer erection, it is less stimulating all round. I'm not forgetting about the use it or lose it philosophy either, but any stimulation nowadays could hardly be construed as burn out. So my angle was to associate general physical and emotional burnout from stress and overexercise as having the same effect on my body's sexual function as over indulgence from porn and masturbation- effectively stress could degrade the same neurotransmitters and receptor sites.

But thanks for your comments. As ever I am open to debate, I certainly won't let my intellectual ego get in the way of a potential cure for my problem, and I admit most of what I suggest is pure theory. That's the attitude we all need to adopt, I think.

PeakT

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2012, 06:19:47 am »
Okay, I read the site.  Yes, it is very interesting.  The creator is an excellent writer and communicator and clearly just wants to help, something sadly lacking on most of the internet.

He did a lot of speculating and little citing of studies and so what I would have liked to have seen was more case studies and notes from his work with the info users group - I think that would have been very valuable.

One reason I say that is that I don't doubt that some men that are seeking out porn many times a day, day in and day out, and are going to have physically negative effects.  (I have received a number of emails from men in this situation.)  But isn't this the extreme situation?  To me it seems as if this site is probably describing guys on one end of the bell curve?

For example, there are many conundrums to solve:  staying up late at night, for example, actually will increase (counterintuitively) brain dopamine levels.  Researchers have noted that this may be the brain's way to compensate for this stressor by trying to increase the "alertness hormone".  Someone also needs to tease out the sleep deprivation factor as well! 

This may be why you have studies that show  that it is actually beneficial:

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/homo-consumericus/201001/pornography-beneficial-or-detrimental

Btw, I am definitely not arguing for pornography:  I can't see any good reason why one would seek out sex with a computer when you could have it with a gorgeous female and all the benefits that come with it!  And most females would be very hurt to know that you are not satisfied by them and them alone.

But I'm cautioning about applying all that the author says carte blanche, because the studies show clearly that testosterone and nitric oxide and health do, in fact, restore libido and often heal erectile dysfunction.  And these can be very important to monitor and restore for your long term health. 

My fear is that many guys, out of guilt and other factors, will ignore the above and end up with a heart attack in five years or metabolic syndrome/diabetes/advanced arterial hardening from untreated hypogonadism. 

Again, very intriguing site, but I'd like to see him encourage anyone with erectile dysfunction to get checked out for high blood pressure, metabolic syndrome, low testosterone, poor lipids.  My guess is that most of the men who come into his site with erectile dysfunction do not have D2 receptor depletion but hardened arteries and low T!  And, if they're not careful, they are going to end up hurting themselves by ignoring the most important underlying causes.

Just my two cents...





« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 06:24:34 am by PeakT »
THE MOST COMPREHENSIVE BOOK ON TRT/TESTOSTERONE:
https://www.amazon.com/Natural-Versus-Testosterone-Therapy-Myer/dp/1523210532/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1499116128&sr=8-1&keywords=natural+versus+testosterone+therapy
And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

MrChickenkiev

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2012, 01:49:44 pm »
We also have to acknowledge that increasing testosterone and nitric oxide, or solving psychological performance problems, does not cure all ED and low libido issues. The field is too complex for a few stock answers, and if it were that easy to solve, the medical profession would have already done so, much the same way they have dealt with common infectious diseases. At the risk of repeating myself ad nausea, if we had all the answers to the problems of ED and low libido there would be no need for this site or forum.

Obvious examples of the limited role of t therapy and nitric oxide related to issues already reported on the Peak Testosterone site include "venous leakage" in older men (?), or blood pressure. The depletion of neurotransmitters involved in sexual performance seems a logical place to start with in analysing some sexual dysfunction problems in younger men. Let's face it, as far as the human body is concerned there are no functions that are guaranteed to work, and what can go wrong will go wrong in a minority of individual cases.

Some of these aforementioned tried and tested solutions (t therapy/nitric oxide) seem to be squarely directed at older sufferers. We have also got to be careful to make this a site for men of all ages, and in particular not patronise younger posters, which from what I have read constitutes anyone deemed to be younger than 40. I'm 43 by the way. The reaction to the person who had a page on Weston Price devoted to him is a case in point :) Why did his age need to be reported- even if that age was incorrectly reported?

Even where low testosterone has been diagnosed, there are guys on this very forum who have been given HRT who still cannot achieve satisfactory erections, nor have they achieved stable levels of testosterone- poster Guyute being a case in point. Yes there are other measures such as blood pressure which might relate to erectile dysfunction, but even the most cursory medical exam will usually have covered that. Even I've had my blood pressure measured, during a visit to the doc, when I had ED, and I got a clean bill of health. Nor would it seem wise to continually flog a diagnostic dead horse, finding different methods to ingest or inject testosterone until something hopefully sticks. Perhaps the problem lies elsewhere?

There is therefore an equal danger that other underlying problems will remain undiscovered if we simply treat the symptoms of non age related sexual dysfunction, with testosterone or nitric oxide, alone or in combination. If a guy was producing healthy amounts of testosterone like Guyute at the beginning of the year and his levels halved, it seems logical to deduce that some event has occurred to stymie the body's own attempts to produce the hormone. Rather than just topping off his levels of testosterone like petrol in a tank, it might be more advantageous to ask what "depleted the tank" in the first place in such a short period of time. Presumably the problem that "depleted the tank" is still current and might have other repercussions? Even if Guyute does gain full erectile function from his t therapy is the underlying problem solved? To me it is just another problem swept under the carpet, the same way someone who has problems sleeping might be prescribed sleeping pills. If stress was the reason they couldn't sleep or gain an erection for that matter, is that stress still ripping through their body with terminal outcomes relating to blood pressure and possibly even cancer?

It would be great if you could take a pill or a herb to cure ED or low libido and then forget all about it- a magic bullet so to speak- I'll be first in line when it is prescribed. But it is clear to me that we simply can't just keep repeating the same old failed interventions, because they will have the same failed outcomes. There is more to ED and low libido than the received understanding of the problem to date.

The much maligned nutritionist Patrick Holford states that there are two types of sick people, the horizontally ill and the vertically ill. The horizontal ill are those confined to bed or in hospital due to an illness, the vertically ill, like most of the people on this cite I suspect, are those who can probably still do a day job, but are not living their lives to the degree that they should. There is a tendency to dismiss the vertically ill as malingerers or fakers or not seriously ill. I am sure we would all beg to differ.

PeakT

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2012, 03:32:30 pm »
You're preaching to the choir overall.  Again, my point is that it is very important to generally look at low testosterone and nitric oxide issues if you have E.D. because these are frequently the underlying problem and are medical conditions that can cause one long term health problems.  I am definitely not trying to say all men will solve their E.D. with these two.

And, yes, younger men are less likely to have nitric oxide issues, but low T issues are suprisingly common in younger males from what I have seen in my emails, so it's something for them to discuss with their docs. 

My summary is that you have to hit E.D. from many angles and get to the root, or often roots of the problem regardless of your age...

« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 03:34:10 pm by PeakT »
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And check out my New Peak Testosterone Program: http://www.peaktestosterone.com/peak_testosterone_program
If you are on medications or have a medical condition, always check with your doctor first before making any lifestyle changes or taking new supplements.  And low testosterone is a medical condition.

MrChickenkiev

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2012, 07:39:46 pm »
I'm just trying to open up another avenue of debate, in one small thread, amongst many other threads, which talk almost exclusively about testosterone levels.

MrChickenkiev

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2012, 03:10:06 pm »
Just a point to clarify my position. I realise the importance of testosterone and the fact that testosterone replacement therapy has produced results for many people. What we don't seem to have is a strenuous enough debate on why testosterone levels dip below satisfactory levels and whether we can make changes to our behaviour and lifestyle choices, food and nutrition to effect that problem. I know that the whole Peak Testosterone site is ostensibly about doing that, but there is a subtle distinction in interpretation I would like to make. I believe that the vast majority of impotence and ED for men probably of any age below 80 is due to the harm we have done our bodies through modern lifestyle choices. It is therefore not just about squeezing out a few extra points on our T scores from a variety of means to get them close to the functional range, or repairing the damage we have done, but living to our natural and full potential- which I believe is to be fully sexually functional until we are a ripe old age. For that reason exogenous testosterone should not even be on the radar for most men, unless irreparable damage has been caused.

I know that peak health is also the philosophy of the Peak Testosterone site and that all the recommendations made are sound if not admirable. I know that it advocates looking after your health to prevent illness including sexual dysfunction. It advocates many natural and effective aids with no side effects. The problem for me is that much of the debate on the forum does not look at causes, and there is a weight of discussion about how to use pharmacological "unnatural" and therefore ultimately misguided solutions. Surely we would all agree that if it was a case of losing weight to prevent ED we would all exercise and eat properly- to avoid taking HRT. I think it is an innate gender trait for a man to wish to achieve erections without pharmacological support. Just taking the T shots might ameliorate the symptom but it doesn't cure the underlying problem. In other words we are in danger of losing focus on what the real problem is, our lifestyles- by coming up with sticking plaster (band-aid) solutions.

It is not surprising that is the tone of the forum, after all we go to our doctor for solutions and then we try to make them work. The fact that there are only two main thrusts of support HRT and PDE5 inhibitors and that these don't always yield results even in combination just shows that there is more the problem than meets the eye. That is also why I think we are missing the point- and should be focusing on causes and lifestyle changes, as well as bring the body back into balance with supplements and nutrition.

I am firmly of the opinion that my free fall descent into impotency is as a result of some action or abuse of my body that I am personally responsible for. I have toyed with various ideas for potential causes mainly to do with stress, but I am flexible enough in my thinking to believe that the problem might be multi dimensional and have other sources too. I am now looking at my sleep cycle which is rarely unbroken and the fact that I snore and have an undesirable spare tyre around my middle, all which might cause my body to be starved of oxygen for testosterone and interrupt the replenishment cycle for erections during REM. Of course stress could have been a factor in interrupting my sleep and caused me to accumulate abdominal fat. Whatever the underlying source, I now think that I should be attempting to lose a little weight and increasing my exercise levels.

I've already removed all sugary snacks from my diet, and try to eat filling meals which take away the cravings to snack in between times. I can't say I have noticed any real difference to my gut, but at least I am no longer adding greatly to the problem. Hopefully exercise will reduce the fat further. I am also now taking arginine on a daily basis spread out in 3 doses of around 500mg. I suspect that I may have depleted my stores of nitric oxide, whether through excess fat, stress or interrupted sleep, so I am effectively topping up those resources. However I think that it is now incumbent upon me to ensure that the situation that created this deficit is not allowed to happen again. In other words a healthy body should not be an impotent one.

I notice by the way that my sleep didn't really improve sufficiently when I was laid off work, so I guessed it wasn't a problem about work stress any more. I think you can have hangovers from problems and that like a broken leg, it can take some time to heal ailments, but I felt that I was sufficiently relaxed to be thinking of looking at other potential causes. I started taking cherry juice for serotonin to help me sleep and had some success, but even increased sleep wasn't giving me additional energy. I have also been taking other neurotransmitter precursors because I think I might have "burned" them out and a multivitamin for vitamins that might have been compromised through stress and poor diet.

Now after 4 months out of work, I have at least now been getting interviews, I am starting to feel a bit more energized. The only thing that is missing are better erections. Things had been getting better for a while. The erections could be prompted by thought alone but they weren't sustained and weren't sufficiently strong. The real change has been one of attitude. I spent a number of years in total paranoia about my ED, and I am now a lot more relaxed about it. That may have been some kind of post traumatic reaction to my brain surgery which manifested itself in focusing on this outstanding problem. But I think there is a logical understanding too, that I have made some progress and that ED and impotency are not simple on and off switches, there are many degrees of function in between, and I don't have to accept "off" as my default setting.

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Re: Oxygen?
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2012, 03:10:06 pm »