Low Testosterone Issues

[Scottie]

 I am new to this as well as twitter. I only even came here cause if reading your stuff online and knowing so much I was reading could not be more of a match to my issues and what I am now going through and really was looking for advise. I just talked to my roommate I have during the week and his numbers were 280 and his Dr. put him at 200mg of testosterone a week. As I done read from you that you want it weekly any how mine put me at 300mg every other week and from I have done in the math I am about 175. Almost half him and way way lower then any numbers you are shooting for normal. My Dr. also wants me to come in for the injections making it all but impossible for me to even do cause of the hours of operation of there office and where I work and my hours and my drive to get there. I am a bit frustrated and thinking I need a new Dr. but wondering just what I really am going to need in Testosterone to get me back to where I really need to be. I mean from what I can see 600mg a month is not going to do it or put me at the bottom numbers still just wasting my time if my roommate is at 800 and already almost double what I am. any input to this will be greatly appreciated. OHHHHHHHH I guess I might add this became more apparent to my issues of bringing it up with my Dr when I of course began to have sexual issues. Now I can still perform some BUT I have a 22 year old Ukrainian soon to be wife and I am 39 in a few weeks to be 40. I have a to be wife that loves the bedroom and I truly need to be on top of my game and I really want to know just where I need to be here. Any how thanks and look forward to hearing from you.

[PeakT]

Hey, I know you have an update so I'll be brief here, but a comment:

Your roommate and you, if you go on HRT, should get your estradiol monitored.  This has been a hot topic on the forum of late, so I encourage you do a search on "estrogen" and "estradiol" using the search above. 

Here are a few threads to look at:

http://peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=940.msg8523#msg8523

http://peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=903.msg8146#msg8146

http://peaktestosterone.com/forum/index.php?topic=679.msg6202#msg6202

Also, look at PRSArtist and anonymous' posts:  they have been dealing with this extensively and one has had very good experiences and the other has had a constant battle, so it's a good balance.

So, when you feel comfortable, post an update here and let us know what you and your doctor are thinking.

[Scottie]

Well I am sorry for posting things in the wrong place. I will try to get this learned seeing I get the feeling with my new discovery I will be here a bit

 As for the update. Well my Dr since I work 100 miles from home and live 70 from even the Dr office still and we can not meet up for them to give the injections there self decided he would just put me on a gel patch. Which I have already done some research on. I know it does not work like injections and I know it does not work maybe even at all for some with possible side effects like a rash and then with my job being very physical I rather doubt it would ever work at all. So I was frustrated even further by his choice to basically do nothing cause I was not going to come in (in my opinion to gain a co pay from me and a visit from my insurance) so I called another Dr office close to work and explained the situation to them. They took my information and said they would get all my records and blood tests since they are but 2 weeks old now and use all of that and scheduled me an appointment for Feb. 9th.

 Even more so here I had done got the Testosterone vile of 10ml and was waiting for approval  from my Dr. Being a holiday I was willing to go in today and let them give me the first injection to show me what they wanted and then do on my own which didn't happen. The new office simply asked the Dr and then asked me if I felt I knew what to do and how to do it. I said I think I can figure this out simple enough. They simply said it was already prescribed so go ahead and get started and get my self headed back to the right direction.

 WOW REALLY THAT SIMPLE!!!!! So much headache from my Dr and another just cuts me lose. Of course cause they knew I clearly needed it cause I had been given the script but it really irritates me my Dr is willing to play with my time to get done what needs to be done over some insurance money which is my belief here what it was about.

 Now back to where I was in the last post. As I have read in some of the online things I really should be around 500 correct? Or is even that the low point? My roommate during the week said his Dr soon to be my Dr said around 800 really. I would like to feel good and kind of young again and I really want things to be right. I don't want to over do it either though. So where should I hope at my age to see things get to and set at? If 800 is good and he is going to get me there then great. God at 175 now to jump all the way to even 500 I would say I would feel entirely different but 800 I might even feel 18 again

 I know when this hit me to what it did. I have learned for the last 2 years simply to live with the problem. But when this hit I would work about 2 hours into my shift and hit a brick wall. I wanted to just go and lay down so bad I can not even find the words to express how hard this wall was I would hit. Every single morning and it started all at once. I dealt with that for about 6 months and I would not say it went away as much as I learned a good big cup of coffee I never drink and a big jug of green tea all day long would get me past all of the energy lost. I never used to drink green tea at all nor coffee before this. Now I have learned many huge good factors of green tea and will continue its use but the two saved me and now I simply cope with it and it does not hit me so much then as now it waits until after I eat at lunch and come back very sluggish but not like I used to cause I still have a system full of good things and caffeine. None the less this is now almost 2 years into the problem and being overlooked and now that its been made quite clear I want it fixed. Also as I mentioned I have a 22 year old future wife and I am not looking to let something that can be fixed possibly ruin or make a disappointing marriage for her. This needs to be fixed. So any and all input to this is more appreciated then I can explain and having it to get with my new Dr to come will be greatly appreciated. I am sure if he can see I have at least made an attempt to do my homework on this he might be far more willing to do all he can to make sure I get where I want to be.
 
 I guess the big thing here now is knowing just where it is that I want to be lol. Or need to be. So thanks and I will be looking for all suggestions and input.

[PeakT]

Well congrats on getting a doctor that is willing to work with you.  But I have a big question:  are you SURE you want to go on HRT?  You've got a 22 year old wife and what guarantee do you have that she won't want to have kids?  Sorry to ask, but I just want to make sure you've really thought that through.

What level should you push your testosterone to?  Well, from what I've seen, there are some urologists that just want to get you into the 400's or 500's because they still have fears about prostate cancer in spite of all of the studies.  And who can blame them?  They've all had many patients over the years die of it, so they'll probably tend to be cautious.

Now some HRT clinics and anti-aging docs are even pushing guys above 800, i.e. up to a 1000 avg or so.  And they also usually do a good job of managing estradiol, so it seems to be working out.  But you have to do your own research and discuss that as I can't possibly advise you on a pharmaceutical like that.

Pellets will tend to get you half way in between.  Docs usually dose it so go up to about 550-700.  How far you fall back is a function of when they do the next procedure.

Hope that helps...

[Scottie]

 Well you just put a twist on things though I will say now I don't think it really matters but it is something I have clearly overlooked. YES SHE WANTS KIDS.

 I did not even realize that was an issue to come BUT I don't think to be honest I am producing well anyhow. In short my ex wife and I never really tried but were not very protective against it at all and nothing ever happened. The guy she run off with it took a matter of NO TIME and she was a to be mommy. I am pretty sure I was the reason nothing was happening. I don't know that for sure but fingers kind of point that direction. So I am not even sure that is going to matter.

 So now my question is since I clearly overlooked that all together just how much can it affect that part of things cause yes my to be wife has done talked about children and how much she wants one child. To be honest I have none and the thought of being a father I like far more now then I did 15 years ago. So I guess this is something I need to know more about.
 
 I guess one big question would be is there an clear evidence that this will stop it from happening or just reduce chances of it happening?

 

[PeakT]

 I did not even realize that was an issue to come BUT I don't think to be honest I am producing well anyhow. In short my ex wife and I never really tried but were not very protective against it at all and nothing ever happened. The guy she run off with it took a matter of NO TIME and she was a to be mommy. I am pretty sure I was the reason nothing was happening. I don't know that for sure but fingers kind of point that direction. So I am not even sure that is going to matter.

 So now my question is since I clearly overlooked that all together just how much can it affect that part of things cause yes my to be wife has done talked about children and how much she wants one child. To be honest I have none and the thought of being a father I like far more now then I did 15 years ago. So I guess this is something I need to know more about.
 
 I guess one big question would be is there an clear evidence that this will stop it from happening or just reduce chances of it happening?

I highly encourage you not to ignore this.  I cannot tell you how big of an emotional issue this is for many women.  I have seen women suicidal, depressed and downright angry when they cannot have children.  Again, this is something that you need to research imo.

You cannot make assumptions about your fertility based on the above.  Fertility docs and even some urologists who specialize in the subject can give you a good evaluation. 

HRT will always lower male fertility as far as I know.  Yes, anecdotally, some men still father children on HRT, but that is very risky, especially when your playing with your wife's future and emotional health.

This is my two cents:  you need to tell all of this to your wife and show her how serious low testosterone is.  (PM me and I can send you my book.)  And then you need to tell her the options with pros and cons.  You have traditional HRT and you are already learning some of the basics about that.  But then you have a variety of fertility-preserving and even fertility-promoting strategies such as Clomid, Arimidex and HCG. 

These are all a big subject in and of themselves.  There is quite a bit of info on the forum, so just use the search text box above.  I don't mean that I don't want you to ask questions, by the way, but I'm just letting you know that there has been some great discussions on the subject.

[Scottie]

Well at the moment this discussion is not a very good idea. She is 7000 miles away and I will do it when I'm back with her in July before we actually get married at that point. She is taking English lessons now to improve cause there are a lot of things not understood at the moment and I don't think I want to hit this subject until she will be very clear on what is being said. I will discuss it though before we marry in July.

 On another note I injected Monday for the first time. Yesterday I could tell a difference just a bit. By 1 hour into my shift today I felt like the energizer bunny had hooked up to me for charge up:-)) I was completely shocked at how I felt today. I was told it will get better to in days and with the injections to come over the next weeks. I thought WOW. I felt ready to go to the gym after work to. In the past I have had to drag my self back there knowing it was good for me. It's a different feeling for sure. I seem more alert as well at work. She might have to be willing to settle for adoption:-))

[PeakT]

Gotcha.  Well, all of that is your biz of course.  Just giving my two cents.

And, as I always say, testosterone makes its most powerful move right in the brain.  Many guys have had your "Shazam!" reaction right between the ears.  Again, read anonymous' description...

[Prsartist]

As far as levels, im 47 a d my dr. Likes to have me in the 8-900 range (AT THE LOWEST)
As I get get checked a day before injection when T is the lowest.

That "rush" you feel now will go away as your body becomes accustomed to the higher levels.
I'm not planning on having kids but my DR has me on HCG 2x a week just to keep the boys
Working and active!

I won't get into another rant about estradol,  for me and some others I'm sure are VERY sensitive
To these levels.  The 1st 6 months of trt had left me with near total ED because
Of raised e2 levels!  (Not even the common ED drugs could overcome it).  So my advise would be
If you start having ED issues after starting TRT, make sure you take a close look at E2 levels!
Don't let your DR. Tell you any # in the 30's is ok!!  (Even though it may appear ok from the lab range.  It certainly wasn't for me!

[Scottie]

Well I have not been on my Testosterone for 3 full weeks going into the 4th week. I feel much much better but I still have issues with ED. Not that I have had my lady near to fully test it out but I know how I was not that long ago and it did not take much of anything to get me aroused and up and I could look at a playboy all day long now I think and not get up. That is so so far from what I have always been like.

 The doc said a lot was likely mental at this point though I don't think that is it but he gave me a script for some Cealis or how ever its spelled which I have no real reason to try until I am with my lady but I don't want to not be able to perform either at that point. So after reading that bit about E2 levels and it having someone down for almost 6 months that now has my attention. I don't know what E2 even is so if that can be explained and what to look for it might answer my problem I am still having.

 My Dr did put me also on Clomid. Said he had hopes that this would get me making my own and maybe get off of the injections all together. I did read on this and I know that it blocks estrogen making the body see that and create more testosterone on its own. Don't know if it will help much or will replace the injections but time will tell on that.

 I do have much more energy then I had before and I am quite grateful for that. I feel much better at the end of the day and my workouts are going much better then before.

 Last summer it took me from August when I returned from my 3 weeks in Ukraine to mid November just to get my strength back to where it was before my 3 week vacation.

 I was out for 6 weeks this time with my vacation and coming down with type B influenza and just 4 workouts in the gym and my strength hit right back to where it was before I left. That is amazing compared to last fall. It was depressing to work so hard just to get to where you were to know you were about to leave again and start over again and not make any real gains. This time I see chances for real gains in the future once again :-)

[PeakT]

Well I have not been on my Testosterone for 3 full weeks going into the 4th week. I feel much much better but I still have issues with ED. Not that I have had my lady near to fully test it out but I know how I was not that long ago and it did not take much of anything to get me aroused and up and I could look at a playboy all day long now I think and not get up. That is so so far from what I have always been like.

 The doc said a lot was likely mental at this point though I don't think that is it but he gave me a script for some Cealis or how ever its spelled which I have no real reason to try until I am with my lady but I don't want to not be able to perform either at that point. So after reading that bit about E2 levels and it having someone down for almost 6 months that now has my attention. I don't know what E2 even is so if that can be explained and what to look for it might answer my problem I am still having.

E2 is estradiol, the "bad" estrogen.  Actually, you need some for arterial, bone, brain and erectile health.  Too much or too little causes ugly problems.

My Dr did put me also on Clomid. Said he had hopes that this would get me making my own and maybe get off of the injections all together. I did read on this and I know that it blocks estrogen making the body see that and create more testosterone on its own. Don't know if it will help much or will replace the injections but time will tell on that.
-)

This will likely raise your testosterone significantly.  It doesn't seem to have a lot of the nice benefits of testosterone in terms of boosting libido and mood. 

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Clomid_Testosterone

It does have one aspect that is worrisome:

http://www.peaktestosterone.com/Clomid_Risk

[Scottie]

well I actually googled that right after I asked what E2 was and kind of got that it was estrogen. I am not sure from reading those links though that I think to get winged off of the injections to straight clomid is the cure either. For now though I am kind of wondering if the Clomid might get things working right for me again though. Maybe my levels are out of whack in the Estrogen and maybe the Clomid will get them back into play. Maybe that is also why he put me on it when I told him things were still not right. I asked if maybe it was just taking a while for the testosterone to kick in for that and he said no. If its not getting it done now its not going to. Then he said some times its a lot mental. But he mentioned that Clomid after that and said it might get me away from the shots all together to. Though I am not sure that is what I want.

 That topic sounds though not any real side effects no real proof that long term is great either.

 Now on the E2 levels. I know I read some where but it was coming from an individual and I am not sure how much opinion or knowledge so I am asking but what he had wrote was. Levels of E2 should be within 20 to 25. Any lower and it caused issues with something I don't remember and any higher he said caused him more less enlarges prostate flare up.

 Do those numbers sound like they are in line? I am thinking maybe I need to have my Dr look at my E2 levels as I would have to assume they are in the blood tests done and maybe should have more blood taken and looked at again since they were prior to the injections and might be different levels now on the injections. I guess for now maybe give the Clomid a bit of time to see what it does and if it is working then figure it our from there?

[PeakT]

Check out this informative article from Life Extension Foundation:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2010/may2010_Why-Estrogen-Balance-is-Critical-to-Aging-Men_01.htm

[Scottie]

well it appears those numbers are about right. That says from 21 to 30 basically.

 That article would make it appear that its just as vital as well as the testosterone its self is and can have as many downsides or more if its too much one way or the other. Low testosterone seems to be the only real issue. A man a bit high seems to have no worries I have seen. Except maybe the need for a lot of cold showers if they have a wife like my ex

 Well I guess in what I have read I will see how things play out with this Clomid as I would have to assume it will not take very long to do what its going to if its going to help. If I don't see things change I will have my Dr pull more blood and see what things look like from there.

 I would say to give the Clomid a couple weeks would not be too much. It is a pill so no doubt will not be nearly as quick to get to things as the injections though I would think I would be seeing something very shortly. Its now been 4 days.

[PeakT]

Lol.

What do you mean by "seeing things?"

Remember:  I don't think Clomid is a good long term solution due to the brain/eye issues.  I can't prove that though...